tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post4575175111092406256..comments2023-10-17T14:31:52.102-04:00Comments on Est Quod Est: The Dante DietPaulihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-74738115405983387812014-01-23T20:21:55.936-05:002014-01-23T20:21:55.936-05:00Pauli: " I imagine that this kind of thing is...Pauli: <i>" I imagine that this kind of thing is laborious to write"</i><br /><br />Yes, I find that writing fiction is very hard, and I am not 100% sure that I have any talent for doing it.<br /><br />I am slogging through my other story about "The Bones of David Wheat," and it has been very rough going. I have a general idea how that one will go, but I wish very much that I had a better imagination.Oengushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537779684816982064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-19834556138702201072014-01-23T19:17:33.797-05:002014-01-23T19:17:33.797-05:00Oengus writes that, among other things, RD just ne...Oengus writes that, among other things, RD just needs to "above all keep himself out of the picture, then maybe, just maybe, he might be able to write a book worth reading."<br /><br />I dunno. Who hasn't looked at a beautiful book of photography and thought, this book would be so much better if every image was a selfie?Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-75645663865266773792014-01-23T10:09:40.801-05:002014-01-23T10:09:40.801-05:00That's a good analysis, Pikkumatti. I mean, th...That's a good analysis, Pikkumatti. I mean, that's what drew me into the discussion on Crunchy Cons to begin with. The book is largely about his experience which simply didn't comport with my own at all. I joined the discussion to combat the smears against conservatives being greedy materialists, etc.Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-80216727147943541182014-01-23T08:38:13.926-05:002014-01-23T08:38:13.926-05:00I see what you mean, Tom. I'd add that such a...I see what you mean, Tom. I'd add that such a "What Dante means to Me" book would be successful if what it really was (without saying so) was a "What Dante Can Mean to You" book. IOW, if the book had the effect of showing the reader something about human nature generally, and not just one human instance specifically. <br /><br />I think this is where Dreher's work often falls short. Dreher writes incessantly about himself, but (despite what he may say) his output is seldom enlightening about anyone other than the specific human that is Rod Dreher. Sort of a low-budget Kardashian show. Those who are vicariously involved in Dreher's life get to comment with "Aw, that's too bad" or "So happy for you, Rod", while others contrast their views or situation with his. But to many readers, it's just meaningless. And I'd guess his Dante book would suffer from the same problem.pikkumattihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929135762224920473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-64672959917160325782014-01-23T08:28:00.353-05:002014-01-23T08:28:00.353-05:00Oengus, I read those posts some time ago. It's...Oengus, I read those posts some time ago. It's a great beginning to an adventure story. Very creative. I imagine that this kind of thing is laborious to write, but I hope you are able to develop the story further. I like it so far.Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-15036399250100223922014-01-22T21:17:09.467-05:002014-01-22T21:17:09.467-05:00While we are on the subject of Dante, I may as wel...While we are on the subject of Dante, I may as well resurrect the sections of a story, tentatively "The Letter for Dante", which I started a while back. I started it after reading Allen Mandelbaum's excellent translation, which gave me some ideas. The story is not done, is in very rough form, and I haven't yet had the time to develop it any further. I might get to it later, if only Beatrice would be kind enough to bestow upon me some needed inspiration.<br /><br />But if anyone is interested, just go to <a href="http://lunarskeletons.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Lunar Skeletons</a> and scroll down to the bottom to find some links to the first two sections.Oengushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537779684816982064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-16029293002003183412014-01-22T19:27:13.971-05:002014-01-22T19:27:13.971-05:00Diane:
You won't go broke betting against my ...Diane:<br /><br />You won't go broke betting against my instincts on publishing.<br /><br />But I prefer to think that a "What Dante Means to Me" book can only succeed if Dante means an awful lot to "Me." As in years' worth of meaning an awful lot.<br /><br />What I would do -- and actually, right now I kind of want to, except I would lose interest within a week -- is write a "What Dante Means to Me" introduction, which concludes along the lines of, "My own trivial experience that month has led me to wonder about the experiences of those to whom Dante means an awful lot. This book tells their stories."<br /><br />The author of such a book would still put a lot of himself into it, even if no first-person pronoun appears outside a quotation in the rest of the book. It may be other people's stories, but it's still the author who does the telling.<br /><br />This would be similar, I suppose, to "Crunchy Cons," except a kind and prudent editor would cut out all the amateur editorializing. (And if you can't find a Dante expert who will say what you would say about Dante, maybe you shouldn't say it.)Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534284662785499386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-38796088506487386762014-01-22T17:32:01.511-05:002014-01-22T17:32:01.511-05:00It seems to me that the model Ray is trying to ape...It seems to me that the model Ray is trying to ape is of course de Botton's book on Proust, a global best-seller. <br /><br />However, Alain de Botton truly is a global public intellectual, if that term actually means anything. Ray....is not. The other thing to realize is that as far as the publishing world is concerned, TLWORL was pretty much Ray shooting his wad--the disappointing sales means no one is going to be throwing any million dollar advances his way. Which is fine, he can be like anyone else and still write the damn book, shopping it to publishing houses as a mostly-finished product later, but that means it'll take awhile. His first book was vaporware for six years--and that's when he had regular employment. The grind of making ends meet by writing ad copy and doing travel writing for in-flight magazines will means "How Dante Can Change Your Life" will be a back-burner project at best for many moons. "Just saying," as Our Working Boy likes to utter.<br /><br />-The Man From K StreetAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-29140042244749210022014-01-22T15:43:17.081-05:002014-01-22T15:43:17.081-05:00What Pik said!
But seriously...there IS a way to ...What Pik said!<br /><br />But seriously...there IS a way to do this book right, methinks. If Rod pretends to be a Dante authority, he'll just look like a complete jackass. But I think he's smart enough not to do that. So, no, he won't try to pose as an expert -- one hopes, at least!<br /><br />I think it will be more of a personal reflection ("What Dante Means to Me")...but even that could work, as long as there's not too much emphasis on the "me."<br /><br />Unfortunately, though, if the past is any indicator, there will be a lot more "me" than "Dante." Oh well.Dianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528066705030924413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-1287949438109979002014-01-22T12:24:29.590-05:002014-01-22T12:24:29.590-05:00Pauli: "It will definitely be better than the...Pauli: <i>"It will definitely be better than the book about his sister which I think he'll regret ever writing once he moves away from St. Francisville in the near future."</i><br /><br />Well, what he could do is reissue TLWORL but leave off the last 3 chapters.Oengushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537779684816982064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-27451556054381031852014-01-22T12:22:58.422-05:002014-01-22T12:22:58.422-05:00Given the Miraculous Cure of the Debilitating Illn...Given the Miraculous Cure of the Debilitating Illness, there is exactly zero chance that he would leave himself out of his Dante book.pikkumattihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929135762224920473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-30963679556572406192014-01-22T09:39:04.162-05:002014-01-22T09:39:04.162-05:00My take obviously is that what Dreher is doing wit...My take obviously is that what Dreher is doing with/to Dante on TAC is a comparable bloggy trivialization/vulgarization of this action game.<br /><br />KeithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-13785062350677096442014-01-22T08:22:17.737-05:002014-01-22T08:22:17.737-05:00Awesomeness.<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Dantes-Inferno-Xbox-360/dp/B001NX4DUQ/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1390396458&sr=8-15&keywords=dante" rel="nofollow">Awesomeness.</a>Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-21415193631277545742014-01-22T08:20:07.393-05:002014-01-22T08:20:07.393-05:00Tom, I think you're probably right. If Dreher ...Tom, I think you're probably right. If Dreher writes a book about Dante and does it well (meaning he leaves himself out of it) it should be the best of his three books. Indeed, it will be the only book which really is about "the permanent things".<br /><br />And, even if he does a crappy job of it with a lot of unrelated info which he wrongly believes is pertinent, it will still probably be the best of his books. It will definitely be better than the book about his sister which I think he'll regret ever writing once he moves away from St. Francisville in the near future.Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-65466524950709649432014-01-22T08:03:09.878-05:002014-01-22T08:03:09.878-05:00My bet is that a commercially successful book on D...My bet is that a commercially successful book on Dante can be written. There's a readership for nonfiction that instructs, enlightens, and entertains without asking too much of the reader. It would certainly be a reviewable book -- what reviewer doesn't want to review by proxy one of the immortals? -- and I'd guess there are enough business travelers who have a vague sense they should know more about Dante to sustain respectable sales.<br /><br />To speculate on a theme: There are probably some real characters in the world of Dante scholarship, maybe some rivalries. You could start with the old chestnut, "What does Dante offer a postmodern world?" then discover the real theme as you conduct your interviews.<br /><br />Now, a "Dante and Me" book is a tougher proposition, unless the Me has lived and breathed Dante or is a fascinating person in their own right. <br /><br />I can't see a monograph on the subject, "Things I Wrote in my Office After Reading Dante on my Couch," doing very well -- with the public, a publisher, or even an agent.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534284662785499386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-57994792275447166322014-01-22T00:10:01.199-05:002014-01-22T00:10:01.199-05:00Pikku: "it is hard to see how Dreher's Da...Pikku: <i>"it is hard to see how Dreher's Dante book would attract much interest."</i><br /><br />I entirely agree.<br /><br />Maybe if someone had a serious education in Latin and Late Medieval Italian, and in early Renaissance philosophy and literature and history, and really knew his stuff forwards and backwards, then maybe we could entertain that person writing another book about the Divine Comedy.<br /><br />If RD would only start out aiming a little lower, and pick a modest subject to a write book about, and do decent and competent research, and above all <i>keep himself out of the picture</i>, then maybe, just maybe, he might be able to write a book worth reading. <br /><br />I have always had the hope that the potential was there, though it might be a vain hope on my part.<br /><br />By the way, I've have read Dante twice now in two different translations. I think it is true what I heard: "Shakespeare and Dante divide the world between them. There are no others."Oengushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537779684816982064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-58122337162824999652014-01-21T22:19:41.794-05:002014-01-21T22:19:41.794-05:00Oengus, it's probably already in there and you...Oengus, it's probably already in there and you just didn't notice it.<br /><br />I loved M@S -- is it still available online? The images were great. I still want to be in the film even if I'm just an extra, as long as I get to wear a nehru jacket.Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-69258587065413009802014-01-21T22:13:08.688-05:002014-01-21T22:13:08.688-05:00A co-ed? My, um, spider-sense was signalling to me...A co-ed? My, um, spider-sense was signalling to me that Ray had been engaged in some other kind of monkeyshines that, upon discovery, had him in the doghouse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-51605654881665623902014-01-21T21:43:46.902-05:002014-01-21T21:43:46.902-05:00But unlike whatever he'd write on the BO, ther...But unlike whatever he'd write on the BO, there has been so much written on so many levels about The Divine Comedy over the past 500 yrs that it is hard to see how Dreher's superficial book would have any impact. <br /><br />And judging by the few comments that he's now getting on his multiple-times-daily Dante posts at TAC, even from his hand-picked fanboy audience, it is hard to see how Dreher's Dante book would attract much interest.pikkumattihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929135762224920473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-91199867441707587822014-01-21T19:01:06.857-05:002014-01-21T19:01:06.857-05:00RD: The Commedia In The Coffee Shop
My inclinatio...RD: The Commedia In The Coffee Shop<br /><br />My inclination is to give RD the benefit of the doubt, and wait to see what is actually in the book, if the book actually comes out. After all, he once promised book about the BO and it never materialized.<br />Oengushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537779684816982064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-53513780050920544582014-01-21T18:51:08.939-05:002014-01-21T18:51:08.939-05:00I can see the advertisement now: a young couple re...I can see the advertisement now: a young couple reading the Divine Comedy together at a Starbucks, crowded with all sorts of beautiful people engaging in various literary activities, like poking the screens on their iPhones and Android tablets, typing on their laptops their novels and essays, and comfortably chatting with each other about whatnot, all the while this droning voice is going on and on in the background about all the possible and very horrible side effects that can result from reading about the Inferno, the Purgatorio, and the Paradiso, and about Virgil, and Beatrice; and how that you should consult a physician to see if Reading Dante is right for you.<br /><br />If I ever resurrect my "Melinda At Starbucks" story, I have got to put Dante in there somehow.Oengushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537779684816982064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-5014655233410465532014-01-21T16:41:05.726-05:002014-01-21T16:41:05.726-05:00Maybe "reading Dante" can become a euphe...Maybe "reading Dante" can become a euphemism for trying to nail a co-ed babe. E.g., "Man, I was really reading Dante with this chick the other night at the student union, then her old man pulls up in a Lexus. Bummer."Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-52331267577970120912014-01-21T16:37:57.090-05:002014-01-21T16:37:57.090-05:00Remember: reading Dante is for informational purpo...Remember: reading Dante is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical or health advice, examination, diagnosis, or treatment.Paulihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-67202768897837445652014-01-21T15:53:46.097-05:002014-01-21T15:53:46.097-05:00Reading Dante is not right for everyone. Only your...Reading Dante is not right for everyone. Only your healthcare provider and you can decide if reading Dante is right for you.kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09760546833628880462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-26296727415705189222014-01-21T14:48:45.579-05:002014-01-21T14:48:45.579-05:00Hmmm...Keith, d'ya suppose she can forgive it,...Hmmm...Keith, d'ya suppose she can <i>forgive</i> it, if "it was just once, promise, in a moment of weakness, and I'll not go to N.O. for a long time now?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com