tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post8599185352498273565..comments2023-10-17T14:31:52.102-04:00Comments on Est Quod Est: In pursuit of pyrrhic victory: Rod Dreher on Sam RochaPaulihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17506171638613025839noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-85413644114970547392017-04-11T08:08:10.852-04:002017-04-11T08:08:10.852-04:00Thomas Merton once wrote that anyone running off t...Thomas Merton once wrote that anyone running off to the desert who isn't called there by God will find himself alone, with his demons. Even the ones who were called by God had demons enough. <br /><br />But I don't think we need to worry about how Rod would fare in an isolated, intentional community. He'll no more join one than follow his own advice to homeschool his own kids. He can't quite untangle emotional security and eternal salvation, but he's not stupid.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534284662785499386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-13416830824245852502017-04-11T02:00:41.281-04:002017-04-11T02:00:41.281-04:00Rebecca Bratten Weiss (linked to by Rocha):
"...Rebecca Bratten Weiss (linked to by Rocha):<br /><br />"And there are other problems: when you try to come Out (or In?), whatever you feared in the World comes in with you, into your microcosm. It’s ironic that my father’s first community was called “New Eden.” Into every Eden, a serpent will come. We tend to bring it in with us. Want to escape from overweening tyrannical power? Too bad, you probably brought it with you, and you will find the community dominated by whichever leader (usually male) has the loudest voice and the least empathy. Want to escape from sexual perversion? Ha. Have I got some stories! It’s amazing just how perverse people can be, on the land, when no one is looking. Want to escape from a welfare system in which those who don’t work won’t eat? I can assure you, you will be shelling beans or building a cabin while nearby some hanger-on rambles on forever about how misunderstood he is. Tired of nitpicking bureaucracy? Your community will be filled with nitpickers, happy to call you out if your daughters’ skirts are too short, or if your sons have been listening to evil music like (gasp) Simon and Garfunkel.<br /><br />"Communities like this tend to attract those who are unable to get along in the ordinary world, and whatever it was that made them unable to get along, they will bring in with them."<br /><br />The last point seems to be the most salient re Rod and his BO. Rod can never fit in, and can never follow the rules. He would bring that with him into any intentional community. He basically had to found his own church, because no existing one is good enough for him! He doesn't fit in in East Podunk, or the big city, or his own family. He would bring that same problem with him. As would the other Optionists. They are, like Rod, all would-be chiefs, and no Indians.<br /><br />More from Weiss:<br /><br /><br />"But the main thing I want to touch on, here, is why the idea of radical separation into intentional community is delusional from the start. And that has to do with money.<br />Money creates systemic dependence. That’s why agrarianism is a needed component in any marginally successful effort..."<br /><br />Of course. Without a material basis, the whole thing is play acting. You can't work for Dow Chemical all day, and then pretend you are a monk or a Pilgrim at night. Or, rather, you can, but it is stupid. <br /><br />As for the agrarianism, good luck with that! Being a subsistence farmer is a lousy lot in life. Real subsistence farmers dump that lifestyle as soon as they are able. Being cold, hungry and sick, and not having access to warmth, food and medical care is not a good thing. And nobody in their right mind wants it. But those conditions, and worse, are very real possibilities for truly agrarian intentional communities.<br /><br />Otherwise, again, it is playacting. Thoreau at Walden going in to Concord to have dinner at his Mom's or over at Ralph Waldo's when he got tired of his beans for breakfast, lunch and dinner diet!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-36449010322051958142017-04-10T22:02:16.067-04:002017-04-10T22:02:16.067-04:00Ok, can someone post something? The silence is dri...Ok, can someone post something? The silence is driving me nuts, lol! Let's get back up to another 98 comments! ;)Dianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528066705030924413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-25624760256420306602017-04-09T16:58:57.595-04:002017-04-09T16:58:57.595-04:00Ba-dump-bump!Ba-dump-bump!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-10789253848760236112017-04-09T15:23:51.683-04:002017-04-09T15:23:51.683-04:00Yikes. And this is the same DreRod who went on and...Yikes. And this is the same DreRod who went on and on about the Catholic "Lavender Mafia," which was supposedly such a scary threat to his kids??<br /><br />What a difference a beard makes. And no, I'm not referring to Mrs Dreher.Dianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528066705030924413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-53700546886673445682017-04-09T07:19:06.808-04:002017-04-09T07:19:06.808-04:00Through the iris at a thousand yards:
"Here ...Through the iris at a thousand yards:<br /><br />"Here is an insecure man selling his internal condition wholesale to other insecure Christians."<br /><br />In the end, though, the demagogue is only as strong as his mob. The fault with the BO isn't Dreher's alone by a long shot but rather overwhelmingly that of the Dreherians who support it and, far worst, those who only pretend to cynically for their own transient personal gain.Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02906931065030228473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-135544121338758692017-04-09T07:10:31.767-04:002017-04-09T07:10:31.767-04:00There is a funny story making the rounds about Dr...There is a funny story making the rounds about Drerod when he belonged to St Seraphim Cathedral in Dallas. The Cathedral is in the middle of Highland Park which is the "gay" neighborhood and the Cathedral has a large gay membership with gay clergy as well with a " Don't ask Don't tell " truce which seems to work for everyone there. Drerod shows up and starts bitching as we know he does so well and a BaBa { grandmother type} takes him aside and tells him to shut the f--k up. " They were here long before you and will be here long after you are gone". Drerod cannot stomach ambiguity and there is the crux of his meanness and cruelty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-2439097730404925092017-04-09T06:58:03.894-04:002017-04-09T06:58:03.894-04:00DreRod founded a ROCOR parish in St Francisville w...DreRod founded a ROCOR parish in St Francisville which folded much to his surprise because nobody joined. The poor priest who was snookered has moved to Washington state. Drerod is not welcomed in the OCA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-6593583738948489782017-04-09T06:52:33.825-04:002017-04-09T06:52:33.825-04:00Gay people do have a certain allure for him..He fo...Gay people do have a certain allure for him..He follows Met Jonah down the pink rabbit hole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-25291647723624989972017-04-09T01:25:53.731-04:002017-04-09T01:25:53.731-04:00Sam Rocha's latest response to Rod is up.
&q...Sam Rocha's latest response to Rod is up. <br /><br />"By Their Fruits: A Reply to Rod Dreher"<br /><br />http://www.patheos.com/blogs/samrocha/2017/04/by-their-fruits-a-reply-to-rod-dreher/<br /><br />In which Sam gets serious and holds Rod to account. <br /><br />-Another Anon Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-88444762880342932622017-04-08T23:23:07.381-04:002017-04-08T23:23:07.381-04:00...and benighted heathens compared with the spirit......and benighted heathens compared with the spiritually enlightened Staretz Rod-Muzhik. :)<br /><br />(Pressed "publish" too soon, lol.)Dianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528066705030924413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-10352066635245702302017-04-08T23:19:48.513-04:002017-04-08T23:19:48.513-04:00I thought Rod's St Francisville mission was RO...I thought Rod's St Francisville mission was ROCOR?? I thought he left the OCA after the whole Muzhik dust-up? Is he back with the OCA? I thought he'd burned too many bridges with them?<br /><br />Well, whether he's OCA or ROCOR, Anon's point is still well taken. He's living in one of the most religious places in America, yet he thinks he has the key to "thickened" Christianity because, of course, all his Christian neighbors are pew-warmersDianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528066705030924413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-4448161179546911282017-04-08T22:57:01.761-04:002017-04-08T22:57:01.761-04:00Sorry, Anon at 8:56, but Rod goes to an OCA Church...Sorry, Anon at 8:56, but Rod goes to an OCA Church. But this too is telling. Why go to a non-ethnic mission church when a greek one is right there? BenOP, baby. He doesn't think the Greeks can do it, His heart was overjoyed when he got to join a ROCOR parish because in American Orthodoxy they are seen as the most serious/traditional. What's seen as the least serious? You guessed it: the Greeks. Which is why he does not go to their parish. This is the very definition of boutique religion. Two Orthodox Churches in Baton Rouge, both of which are under-attended. Sad. But since the BenOp is a consciously constructed community, well, the Greeks just aren't following the blueprint. HIs joining mission churches really ought to be a pathological tell. I have to imagine he wants to be able to shape them in his BenOp image (please note that his Baptismal name is Benedict--the new Benedict we've been waiting for?).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-46015068661301096402017-04-08T20:56:28.187-04:002017-04-08T20:56:28.187-04:00And nothing says HUBRIS quite as much as opening u...And nothing says HUBRIS quite as much as opening up a vanity Greek Orthodox "mission" in the heart of rural Louisiana! In probably the most "churched" place in America, where people think nothing of asking strangers where they go to worship on Sundays, because almost everybody does, Rod, in his wisdom, acted as if his Wendell Barry "place" du jour was overrun with "heathens." If folks in LA wanted a liturgical church, they had only to go to the local RC parish, of which there is no shortage. But, no, they were going to flock to Rod's boutique variety of Greek Orthodoxy, even though they aren't Greek, and even though they are either already Catholic (and hence liturgical) or define themselves in opposition to that kind of worship (ie Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, etc).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-6065863210732046662017-04-08T14:54:02.830-04:002017-04-08T14:54:02.830-04:00I used to think he got high on his own supply. But...I used to think he got high on his own supply. But now I think he knows he's a grifter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-77740347691449357402017-04-08T13:53:57.382-04:002017-04-08T13:53:57.382-04:00Thoreau's mom made him dinner and did his laun...Thoreau's mom made him dinner and did his laundry for him while he lived at the pond! <br /><br />Similarly, I see Rod jet setting to Paris and Norcia, wining and beering and dining in style, while all the while preaching the importance of folks staying at home in some <br />"thick," dreary, dreadful, narrow minded, close minded, claustrophobic little BenOp "community." BenOp craphole for thee, the world is my oyster for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-71615706445743473942017-04-08T12:50:00.884-04:002017-04-08T12:50:00.884-04:00A question, though: Do you all think that Rod is c...A question, though: Do you all think that Rod is conscious of the incoherence of his strategy for Christians in a post-Christian nation, of the shallowness and shoddiness of the research he presents, and of the contradictions between what he advises and how he lives?<br /><br />My guess is, more than not, no. He reasons with his amygdala. What makes him feel good *is* good, what makes him feel bad *is* bad.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534284662785499386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-4205697066299746702017-04-08T12:39:33.695-04:002017-04-08T12:39:33.695-04:00One of the critical reviews of Rod's current b...One of the critical reviews of Rod's current book linked to an article that pointed out that the whole back-to-the-land movement has always been a rich, or at least middle class, white guy's game. Even Thoreau, when he was finished at Walden Pond, moved right back into Emerson's house, and soon after into a lovely colonial on Main Street.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534284662785499386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-22749702183279097992017-04-08T11:19:59.820-04:002017-04-08T11:19:59.820-04:00That's quite the event that Dreher is headlini...That's quite the event that Dreher is headlining. $250/plate, $10k/table. Seriously, God bless the Monks of Norcia, and all hopes for successful fund-raising on their part.<br /><br />But for Dreher to be peddling his "strategic withdrawal" jive at one of the fines and most expensive restaurants in Dallas is a big disconnect, if the BO is to be taken seriously, that is. If strategic withdrawal from the culture means dropping into the Mansion once in awhile, then sign me up. <br /><br />OTOH, maybe this kind of strategic withdrawal is more similar to the communes in the '70s where the rich college kids "dropped out" so they could "share the land" -- until the novelty wore off, of course, and they could return back to the good, well-funded life. (Ask the kids at the time who grew up on a farm about the glamour of living off the land...) If this is the case, then the BO might just be a prime option for a trendy sabbatical option by the already successful -- "drop out" for a year while still eating fine food and enjoying quality drink, and then feel good about yourself for "preserving Christian culture" in the meanwhile. <br /><br />Whatever moves the Ovaltine, I guess.pikkumattihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929135762224920473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-61145604600600849992017-04-08T09:26:56.750-04:002017-04-08T09:26:56.750-04:00"An Evening with Rod Dreher" (promoting ...<a href="http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/hey-dallas-help-the-norcia-monks/" rel="nofollow">"An Evening with Rod Dreher" (promoting his Benedict Option) - and beer!</a><br /><br />"Copies of The Benedict Option will be available for purchase at the event."<br /><br />A very different Benedict, indeed.Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02906931065030228473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-38201589589595825702017-04-08T08:57:09.814-04:002017-04-08T08:57:09.814-04:00I've wondered since I first heard that Rod was...I've wondered since I first heard that Rod was going to Norcia: Why is Rod going to Norcia? Because <br /><br />a) that's where St. Benedict was *from*, which is to say Norcia is what he *withdrew from* in order to do his thing at Monte Cassino; <br /><br />b) the current monastery at Norcia was founded in 1998 -- and now I learn it was founded by Americans -- which means my suburban DC parish has a Christian community tradition that is three times older;<br /><br />c) Rod's whole claim to intellectualism rests on the Macintyre quotation, which PREDICTS A VERY DIFFERENT SAINT BENEDICT, and I assumed for years that Rod understood what "different" means.<br /><br />Just now, though, I went to the <a href="https://en.nursia.org" rel="nofollow">monastery website</a>, and read this, about the years after 1810, when the previous monastery in the town was closed:<br /><br />"Since the loss of the monks, the town of Norcia grew less in fame for their saints and more for their culinary delights -- truffles, wild boar, and pecorino cheese."<br /><br />#TheMoreYouKnowTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09534284662785499386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-15048486331789314712017-04-08T08:12:37.837-04:002017-04-08T08:12:37.837-04:00More historical criticism
Back when I began to un...<a href="http://scriptoriumdaily.com/thoughts-on-the-benedict-option-a-lament/" rel="nofollow">More historical criticism</a><br /><br />Back when I began to understand that Rod Dreher and Vox Day were basically the identical, fraudulent demagogic type, merely pushing different "product" as it were, I mockingly referred offhandedly to Dreher's BO as "Alt-Christianity".<br /><br />But essentially, regardless of what Dreher's rapt consumers think they're buy, that seems to be more and more what he's selling, an alt-historical, alt-theological, alt-sociological, alt-political, alt-possible Alt-Christianity.Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02906931065030228473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-1483454012875981222017-04-08T04:22:47.510-04:002017-04-08T04:22:47.510-04:00So well said, Anonymous. And yes, that Dark Ages s...So well said, Anonymous. And yes, that Dark Ages stuff should have been the instant tip-off that Dreher had not made the slightest attempt to consult serious contemporary historical scholarship. Thank you.Dianehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528066705030924413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-8218742638055733622017-04-08T01:44:53.148-04:002017-04-08T01:44:53.148-04:00f anyone has ever rad Dreher's essay on the hi...f anyone has ever rad Dreher's essay on the history of christian marriage you will see the pattern quite clearly. Rod took post Trent catholic theology regarding marriage and wrote about it as if the Church always and everywhere held to that theology. The result is a theological treatise posing as history. Realy shoddy work and very deceptive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2065164884737080821.post-38737325401964899412017-04-07T23:00:35.834-04:002017-04-07T23:00:35.834-04:00Sounds like Dreher's history work is the socia...Sounds like Dreher's history work is the social science equivalent of what we in engineering school called "dry lab" (or what today is "climate science"): you start with the conclusion you want to prove, and then work backward to gather the data to support it.pikkumattihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04929135762224920473noreply@blogger.com