Gimme Five!
Sadly another bash has occurred. Catholic vs. Catholic should be entitled "Catholic Bishop Versus Angry Erstwhile Catholic-but-church-hopping Layperson". At least for the examples he lists. I don't really agree with the Bishop's characterization of a crackdown on illegal immigration, but the man Rod quotes obviously thinks that depriving the church of his charming presence and depriving himself of the Holy Eucharist is a good way to "show everybody". Picking him as an example is further evidence of his tone-deafness. It would be like saying "Wow! Conservative vs. Conservative! Rush Limbaugh and Dr. James Dobson disagree on marriage counseling!"
Like I said in an earlier combox, you can disagree with your bishop on a policy matter without leaving the church over it. (Why is this so hard....)
I know that Rod famously walked out of a Mass because he was angry and then kind of bragged about it. I'm going to deal with this style of reaction in a deeper way in a post later this week, especially with regards to this insightful book which just came out.
So say 5 Hail Marys tonight and at this rate, I'd plan on writing a check for around $25 on the 28th.
Pauli, what would you say the ground rules are for criticizing a bishop, if you think he's really screwed up big time? I'm not just talking about on a prudential matter like war or immigration (as is the case here), but on something more serious. Specifically, I'm talking about bishops who seem more eager to hobnob with the powerful, for example, than uphold doctrine. The best example I can think of is bishops who go all weak at the knees about denying the sacraments to pro-abortion politicians, although I'm sure there are other examples one could think of.
ReplyDeleteI personally have a very difficult time respecting such bishops, though I can respect their position of authority in the Church. I find it hard to be charitable and soft-spoken to one who bends with the Zeitgeist so easily.
Diane, I see your point re: Dreher. I'm curious about the whole concept of taking the bishops to task when they're not only wrong but miserably wrong in their actions/statements, which unfortunately happens more often than any of us would like. I find it hard to be meek and mild and charitable in tone when discussing such actions/statements, and just wanted to throw it out there to see what Pauli and others thought.
ReplyDeleteJohn Boland, diocese of Savannah, Georgia. I don't know much about him, except that he's not too generous with the Indult for the Latin Mass, which doesn't please me but isn't a scandal, just an annoyance.
ReplyDeleteAndy: "The best example I can think of is bishops who go all weak at the knees about denying the sacraments to pro-abortion politicians, although I'm sure there are other examples one could think of."
ReplyDeleteI wish they'd be tougher on this as well.
I can't be much help on ground rules because I'm simply not interested in pointing out everytime a bishop misses an opportunity or screws up. Must be those 2 big logs in my eyes. I don't know which one is bigger -- the one with "I SCREWED UP!" carved in it, or the one entitled "MISSED OPPORTUNITIES". But both logs belong to me, unfortunately. Sins of omission are why God invented plenary indulgences.
Another reason I'm not much help is that I don't see how it does any good. You can't get rid of a bad bishop the same way you get rid of Tom Daschle or even Dan Rather, i.e., by arousing the public against them. Of course some Bishops were removed. Law, right? And Cleveland's former Bp. Pilla had some nasty money stuff going on. He was basically forced to take retirement -- open secret. There have been some others. The outcry played a part, but how big a part? The "tribals" in Cleveland liked Pilla for the most part and I don't remember a lot of anti-Pilla sentiment; it was even pretty low-key at the Trid Mass I attended, esp. compared to Pittsburgh.
I would write a letter to your bishop or the bishop you feel is guilty of one of the things that bothers you. Read it; maybe you'll decide not to send it after all. If you do, send a carbon copy to the Papal Nuncio in Washington DC. I've done that kind of thing about something that bothered me in the church.
After you do that, I'll bet you a Coke and a smile that you'll be able to be more charitable and even though your words will be softer, your argument will have more force.
"I personally have a very difficult time respecting such bishops, though I can respect their position of authority in the Church. I find it hard to be charitable and soft-spoken to one who bends with the Zeitgeist so easily."
Yeah, well I find it hard to be charitable to my mother-in-law and this guy I know who looks like me but refuses to take an afternoon nap and then is grumpy all evening long. Anyway, I find your language in this comment very calm, measured and charitable. More so than Rod's sarcastic tirades in his DMN & Beliefnet blogs. Like I said, I will post something longer about this, focusing on the whole bishop / pro-abortion politician / communion debacle. Also, do you get the Una Voce newsletter? There's a good article about different types of Catholics in the back that ties in well with this discussion, dang! I wish I could find my copy... I started reading it and one of my Grumpy Kids™ must have made off with it.
Specifically, I'm talking about bishops who seem more eager to hobnob with the powerful, for example, than uphold doctrine. The best example I can think of is bishops who go all weak at the knees about denying the sacraments to pro-abortion politicians, although I'm sure there are other examples one could think of.
ReplyDeleteWell, for one, I would avoid jumping to conclusions about their motivations, and remmber the Fourth Commandment.
Well put, John. Remember the Pharisees used to make snide "nob-nobbing" remarks about our Lord.
ReplyDeleteOur Lord was accused by the Pharisees of hobnobbing with the powerful? Can you point me to chapter and verse? (I thought he was accused of hanging with the lowest of the low-- tax collectors and sinners and what not...)
ReplyDeleteAnd fine, John, the bishops in question might have some other motivation for selling out Catholic orthodoxy and upholding the vile Zeitgeist. I'm still not impressed.
It might not be the best analogy, but I'm thinking about people who had money, not necessarily those who were socially acceptable. The tax-gatherers did have money, and no doubt the way they got it caused an "old-money / new-money" type of rift with the rich Pharisees. And I remember hearing a Bible scholar say once that Simon the Leper mentioned in Matthew was pretty loaded because he was rich and powerful enough to get out of living in a leper colony and instead lived in his own house with servants.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course St. Mary Magdalene was rich also. Her act of anointing Our Lord with expensive perfume was extremely misunderstood. I'm not trying to draw equivalencies between Nancy Pelosi and St. MM by any means, or between the rich and famous hob-nobbing with bishops and the Gospel characters who wanted to entertain the master whom they loved, but I'm expanding on the idea that we should not be too quick to assign sinful or dubious motives to perceived hob-nobs in general or we are in danger of being Pharisaical.
I still think your points about wishing the Bishops would come out stronger against this and that are completely valid. As a group the US bishops do seem to be more into being PC and not offending anyone than they are into enforcing the rules or the church. But I keep going back to my own shortcomings, something that I have the ability and responsibility to try to remedy, and the impracticality of applying "political pressure" on church leaders who aren't up for re-election.
to follow up pauli's point, i think the tax collectors were considered "lowest of the low" because they were jewish sellouts, not because they lacked power and money.
ReplyDelete