Fred is Right
I'm not always "on the same page" with Texas Fred, but he just put up a post that I heartily agree with. It is certainly a point worth making. It's also inflammatory, but that's Fred. We don't want him to change his mind. Or, God forbid, apologize for saying what's on it. Excerpt:
I am going to say this in plain English, this debacle was brought on, at least partially, by the political correctness and feel good politics that our children are being taught at home and in our liberal controlled colleges and universities, our students are taught to NOT fight back, our children are being taught that there are no losers in life, that we’re all equal and it’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game, they are taught to just submit and accept the consequences, and I personally feel that this attitude is as much responsible for the massive loss of life as anything...
Our children are not being well served by this progressive teaching, and it’s that same progressive teaching that is going to be the complete undoing of this once great USA, we’re becoming a nation of well educated wimps, and if we don’t reverse that trend, wimps is all we’ll be in 2 or 3 more generations...
This is the related to the topic of my latest survey, so feel free to weigh in over there in the right column. Speaking of, in the last "unscientific straw poll" survey, Sam Brownback won. Actually he tied with Richard Nixon, but since we don't really have him to "kick around anymore", we'll hand it to Samwise.
I think you and many of Americans are caught up in this "left vs right" thinking.
ReplyDeleteI'm curious, "What period in American history do you think the country was at it's best?"
Before I answer, please support your accusation of "left vs right thinking." Is being willing/able to defend oneself from an attack left thinking or right thinking or both? I hope self-defense is believed to be a positive virtuous practice on both sides.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Paige's question--right now. Right now we are at our best. I don't have any real nostalgic views about our past.
ReplyDeleteIt is kind of a trick question too, since given date will be run through the atrocity function, and the appropriate atrocity will be spit out for the date given. I see no other purpose for that question other than to say we sucked 25, 50, 150 years ago and you suck now because you believe that it was better 25, 50, 150 years ago.
In this case I agree to a point with Tejano Fred. Although I don’t fault the kids involved, they had no idea it was coming. Plus when those shots fire in that old building, the noise alone hurts and shocks. I’ve shot that caliber of Glock before at the shooting range. I was surprised how inaccurate I was. It’s a light gun, and there is a lot of play in it hence it takes an experienced shooter to be accurate. Pistols are not accurate. We can assume that even Prozac could not keep the shooter from shaking. My speculation is he was really close to his victims. So Tejono Fred is correct, it is very sad that there was not someone in there who had the presence of mind to throw a chair, or rush him as he reloaded.
What to blame that on? Can you even use the word blame here? To me it’s more like a lack of training than cowardice.
I'd blame original sin.
ReplyDeleteTo me it’s more like a lack of training than cowardice.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I just read Malcom Gladwell's book Blink last night, in which he suggests that in times of great stress people become autistic; the world simply isn't put together in their minds the way it is when they aren't under such stress.
If we want to count on responding rationally when we're being shot at, we need to train for it. As I understand it, even people who are trained can freeze when real bullets start flying.
Contra Fred, I'm not sure that university students were particularly better prepared to respond to this thirty, fifty, or a hundred years ago.
I agree on training, Tom & Cube. You hear all that noise and you say "Shit, we're being attacked!" The normal person isn't going to say "Wait... from the shot spacing it sounds like there's only one shooter... those are pistol shots, God... one sounds like a 22 target pistol -- let's take him out!"
ReplyDeleteI do think the most disturbing thing is the 2.5 hours between the first 2 murders and the rampage. But I don't know if blame can be readily assigned to anyone.
Maybe 50 or 100 years ago we didn't need to be equipped to respond to something like this. Did students hand in stuff like Richard McBeef in 1907 or even 1957?
Johnmcg
ReplyDeleteI disagree that the inability to overcome shock is an original sin issue.
Tom
I believe that those kids lost the ability to think. If some of them had self-defense training or experienced firearms out on the range they might have been able to overcome the fear and shock.
i am about to move out of the same county the shooter and many of his victims went to school in (in fact i signed the relevant papers the day of the shooting). there is something blue-velvety surreal about the place. everything works, the schools are swimming in money and i've actually been pretty happy with my experience in the school system. but the place makes me feel uneasy. everything works a little too well. there are rules everywhere -- DON'T FEED THE DUCKS! DON'T TAKE CHERRY BLOSSOMS OFF THE TREE! NO FLOATIES OF ANY KIND IN THE PUBLIC POOL! i'm not even going to bother making a tenuous connection between this mentality and the shooting, but i will say that the atmosphere here seems very similar to descriptions of Littleton CO. fairfax county -- where everyone has a gleaming new SUV , a granite-topped kitchen, and a dirty little secret credit card balance. buh bye!
ReplyDeleteIf some of them had self-defense training or experienced firearms out on the range they might have been able to overcome the fear and shock.
ReplyDeleteDo you mean to say that no one in Norris Hall had self-defense training or experienced firearms out on the range?
ReplyDeletedisagree that the inability to overcome shock is an original sin issue.
My point is that if we think we can avoid calamities like this either through training or being really tough like our forefathers instead of wimps who talk about out feelings, we're kidding ourselves. Originial sin is real, and evil will always be in the world. Blaming it on whatever our favorite hobbyhorse is (gun control, lack of gun control, not taking domestic violence seriously, a nation of wimps..) is a waste of time and energy.
Tom
ReplyDeleteI am not saying that. I suspect it was just a bunch of scared kids who could no longer control their biology.
I had a horse get away from me once at night. As we were flying down this dirt road with RR tracks on one side and telephone poles on the other and a five foot wide canal about a 1/4 of a mile ahead of us. I remember trying to think at about 20 miles an hour. All I could think to do was slide off the back of the horse because of the poles and tracks. I came to about 20 minutes later next to a steel natural gas pipe. I broke my wrist and was cut up, but all was well. The horse had to be put down. He went in the canal, I went over the top. Not much any training could have done. Because I had some training and was familiar with the surroundings I was able to think a little to not jump to either side which certainly had a better chance to kill me. The point is I could think very little and simply hung on.
Without all the facts it’s hard to have a firm conclusion about this. My friend got one of those big screen HD TV’s. I said can we watch the first few minutes of Gladiator on it. He puts it on, me, my friend, and his 13 year old boy watch it. My friend’s wife was miffed because the lad saw violence. She feeds the lad meat too. Nevertheless, the lad is bullied at school, and is taught to run to the authorities who do nothing about it. I suspect the poor boy has experienced more real violence in his short life than the ten minutes of Gladiator. The problem is an overall unwillingness to face evil, and that there are people who may try to harm you, and here is what you do to protect yourself.
I think you can learn a lot from Bruce Lee in this situation. You have to be like water in these types of situations.
Johnmcg
ReplyDelete"Originial sin is real, and evil will always be in the world."
I understand now. You are correct, and I agree. Back to Bruce Lee, you have to be like water.
"I hope self-defense is believed to be a positive virtuous practice on both sides."
ReplyDeleteThats the problem, Pauli. The "Progressive" side of the equation DOESN"T believe that self reliance for one's own defense IS a valid option. Their arguments used in the entire gun control debate demonstrates their unwillingness to allow for self reliance/responsibility.
I got into an argument with my 27yo flaming moonbat progeny last night over the shootings; her whole attitude was that "if only we taught more verbal conflict resolution techniques, such incidents wouldn't occur". This is the attitude inculcated in this generation by the whole social engineering structure of the liberal/government controlled schools. It certainly runs counter to everything I ever tried to teach her....
All very interesting. Panic can be immobilizing and deadly, to be sure, but the idea that our culture has been wussified and that boys in particular have had passivity and non-judgmentalism hammered into them, is all too sadly true. The other political correctness that I blame for this atrocity is related to the failure of the university or of the police to do something about this kid who was clearly a ticking time bomb. Fear of litigation or of being called racist or some dang thing took common sense off of the table long before the fellow went berzerk. What a world.
ReplyDeleteGreat blog, by the way. I'll add a link, and I hope you'll send trackbacks when you have posts your want to promote!
All the best,
D. Ox