Orthodox Rod Dreher on Catholic vs. Catholic civil war: "Bring it"
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| The first rule of Fight Club: don't crow about Fight Club |
Still, Dreher's blatant and grotesque vicarious lust to see other faiths clash while his own religious ox remains coyly ungored may have something to do with why Catholics remain stubbornly unmoved to join his Benedict Option cult and as a consequence his fake Catholic newsletter The Benedict Post died a quick death on the vine.
Unfortunately for Dreher, who would have Catholics at each others' throats as a means of driving them into his "Ben Op" lotus land, Catholics already have in their Church all Dreher claims is missing from their lives and which, he implies, he above all others has the wisdom to supply through his thoroughly modern "Benedict Option".
And so they understandably see little need to join a weird, middle-aged hipster's personal movement designed solely to restore meaning and a little "let's you and him fight" vicarious fisticuffs excitement into his tergiversant indoor kitty life.
The first rule of Fight Club, numbskull? Don't babble and crow about Fight Club, particularly if you're not even in the fight.
I like this lady's comment. Alas it is appended with a particularly dumb NFR:
ReplyDeleteJill A. says:
November 1, 2015 at 12:05 am
Take this for what it is worth from an old Protestant church lady.
I’m ashamed of both you boys. Do you see the image of Christ you posted above? Do you see any stones in that man’s hands? No, he has nails in his hands, not stones.
You have a saying you have been using occasionally. “Christianity hasn’t lost. It has never been tried.” Guess what? Christ healed the soldier and went with him to his own death.
Stones! Battlefields! If the pair of you were in my Sunday School class, I’d be so tempted to smack both of you across the top of the head.
[NFR: Are you waging war on us, Madam? — RD]
Oh, good GRIEF.
DeleteShe's spot on, and that is, in fact, possibly the dumbest NFR ever. I mean, what?
Oh this one is good too. Commentariat is on a roll tonight:
ReplyDeleteCharlie says:
November 1, 2015 at 1:09 am
[NFR: He’s not declaring war, but he’s saying he’s prepared to go to war to defend the faith against what he believes to be heresy. He believes that false irenicism amounts to declaring peace where there is no peace. He’s saying, “You people don’t scare me. I’m not rolling over while you try to force heresy on my church.” I applaud that. — RD]
I’m trying to envision a “war” fought between a New York Times op-ed columnist and a bunch of leftist academic theologians. I’m sure that whoever connected first with a weak-wristed slap would immediately be declared victor and crowned emperor of the faculty lounge.
Let us just hope that Mr. Dreher does not incur a serious and paralyzing injury from forcibly throwing down his glove. Recall what happened when he attempted to retrieve a midnight snack last week, after all. (That must be better now, as there are no more mentions of being "chairbound" and incontinent.)
The thought of Dreher and Douthat going to war must strike the same kind of fear into the hearts of the liberal catholic theologians as was felt by the Algerian National Liberation Front when they heard that Abbott and Costello joined the Foreign Legion
ReplyDelete-Anonymous Maximus
Dreher is engaged here in what I'll call "epi-Christianity": Christianity is the underlying oak bark, Dreher is the mushroom spore and fruiting body springing out of it as he feeds off of it for his own ends, in this and numerous other cases as a means of marketing himself.
ReplyDeleteOne would think traditional Catholics would find it curious that someone with a fundamental disagreement with the Church over its traditional teachings on birth control, someone who actually rejected the Church and left it, is nonetheless posing as its champion.
But Catholics like many others aren't immune to the psychological impulses I'll collectively refer to as celebrity "starf*cking", and following Dreher's first-order attachment to Ross Douthat there are no shortage of similar, second-order attachments to Dreher:
Big fleas have little fleas,
Upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas,
and so, ad infinitum.
Try new, flavorful epi-Christian Juicy Juice, made with 10% real Christianity and now in handy, portable BO Paks.
Commenter James Bradshaw nailed Dreher on this, his latest inconsistency:
ReplyDelete"Rod, you sometimes make it sound like your devotion is to the brass knuckles of religious authority for its own sake, rather than what is true."
"You left Catholicism for Orthodoxy. The Orthodox faith permits divorce and remarriage (up to three times). Why are you so hung up on the enforcement of the Catholic faith’s doctrines on marriage which you (I assume) don’t even believe?"
Lol, did Rod let that stand? Did he NFR it?
DeleteHe didn't NFR it, which is very surprising.
DeleteAnthony
Speaking of NFRs, I can't think of any other examples of blog hosts responding in that manner.
DeleteOf course, the NFR is the ultimate demonstration of dominance. Rod doesn't merely respond to the comment, he occupies the comment. In real life he wouldn't merely respond to you face to face, he's shove his torso up underneath the front of your sweater to respond to you face to face, because on his blog you're not simply a commenter, you're something he wears any time he feels like it.
I keep thinking of this comment and cracking up. I have such a vivid image of the NFR emerging up the neck of someone's sweater, goofy glasses and all.
DeleteMore, from commenter Nathan W:
ReplyDelete"I completely share James Bradshaw’s concern above. It’s utterly bizarre to me that Rod tends to praise approaches to Catholicism that can essentially preclude any reforms in a more Orthodox direction. What seems to matter here is not so much that what Douthat believes is true, but that he’s fighting for what he believes to be true, and, even more importantly, that what he’s fighting for happens to be “conservative” ... It certainly seems like the most important thing is that Douthat is fighting against liberals; whether what he’s fighting for ... is actually true seems to be beside the point ... [But] being Orthodox is not about being conservative–and I say this as an Orthodox theologian who is, on the whole, more conservative than not. With all the comments here that suggest the liberals are more in love with novelty than Christ and the Church, people are forgetting that conservatism can just as easily become an idol as anything else, and it strikes me as an idol that’s gotten a lot of reverence here the last few days."
And more. Commenter Autreck correctly notes that Dreher's rhetoric is often more "conservative" than Christian, and that he is more apt to cite the authority of Phillip Rieff or Alasdair MacIntyre than that of Jesus Christ:
ReplyDelete"You’re going to have [a hard] time convincing large numbers of evangelicals ... of the merits of the Benedict Option, without demonstrating at least a casual interest in Jesus and his intent.
It honestly feels like you have been more greatly yoked by tradition and history and the culture of the High Church, than the Bible which has been given to us by the Lord.
If you’re more willing to quote vast tracts from obscure medieval philosophers than from the Bible, the Option will seem esoteric and, almost secular.
Find support for the Benedict Option in the Word and convince us who otherwise love your writing and passion."
If I were going to blog about this latest overreach, I'd title the post "A Brooklyn Bridge Too Far." Even those who otherwise love Rod's writing and passion can't choke down the BS.
DeleteI suspect Rod always was a cultural Catholic, just not the culture we usually mean by that term, but a culture of aesthetics and authority.
ReplyDeleteNow he's a cultural ex-Catholic. Same culture, though.
I suspect Rod always was a cultural Catholic, just not the culture we usually mean by that term, but a culture of aesthetics and authority.
DeleteThis is my read, but not just confined to Catholicism. To my eyes, religion itself serves Rod (in his eyes) as the big brother who will beat up anyone who (metaphorically speaking) tries to pull his pants down while simultaneously taunting them for wearing white after Labor Day.
I don't think Jesus done it this way.
Sadly, Rod is more like an Augistinian with an anxiety disorder than an Orthodox Christian. He appears to deeply misunderstand much of our theology and praxis. He almost never quotes from Orthodox theologians, or even the church fathers. Instead, he usually find some obscure theological concept or a minor Roman Catholic theologian to quote from approvingly. In orthodoxy, we have a different, so teary elegy, a different ecclesiology, a different theology of the sacraments, a different understanding of sin, judgment, and redemption. We even have a radically different concept of hell than exists in most Western Christian teaching. Rod seems utterly oblivious to this
Deletethat should read soteriology !@%$ voice dictation
DeleteI wish your comment could be attached to Rod's blog as a disclaimer.
DeleteIt always baffled me how he seems to almost take Dante's writings about hell literally. That isn't even good or necessary for a Catholic (it's a 600 year old work of poetic fiction, not a catechism for crying out loud! Does he also take Left Behind literally?) but it makes even less sense for a halfway catechized Orthodox person.
DeleteSo teary elegy cracks me up, though. I can think of any number of poems I studied in college and graduate school that would qualify as so teary elegies.
DeleteJesus drove a bunch of guys like Dreher out of the Temple with a bull-whip.
ReplyDeleteGiven his tone this week his testosterone shots must be working.
ReplyDeleteIt sure seems like he's medicated with something, whatever it is. Honestly, reading his alarming blather today, I really wondered if he was drunk blogging.
DeleteThis is a guy who overshared in Little Way that the other boys in his town quit asking him to play baseball and hang out with him around the age of twelve; then recently posted that, around the same time, he used to listen to a Bee Gee's song before bed every nigh thinking it was the most beautiful thing he had ever heard.
DeleteShots are out of the question, it would take a testosterone administration plan on the scale of the Berlin Airlift to make a working man out of our working boy
Anonymous Maximus
To me, he reads less like he's drunk than like he's high on meth. One commentator nailed it when she said that his quip about wanting his "smart aleck" daughter to be beaten by a cop might make a "college atheist" of said daughter one day.
ReplyDeleteI can't help but wonder what Julie thinks of Rod's chilling "quips" about their daughter. I often wonder what she thinks of a lot of his blogging, but especially this disturbing post we've been discussing.
DeleteI wonder the same thing. I also wonder what she - and the children - think about his fixation with homosexuality. We know what his parents, his sister, and his brother in law think - i.e. that it is sick and a shameful embarrassment to them.
DeleteI think they'd be happier with Rod and For Rod if he were either gay and content with that or straight and not obsessed with gays. But being a nominally straight man who is obsessed with gays and as hateful toward women as Rod is is just too unhealthy and weird.
DeleteYeah that comment was spot on. I feel bad for the little girl, who seems like such a sweet, well-behaved typical little homeschool kid. She seems to be the target for her messed up dad's fear and rage.
DeleteAs for what Julie thinks, well you have to remember, not only is she doing all the women's work in that home (including fancy cooking, homeschooling, managing the one kid's medical condition) she probably does almost all the men's work as well, except what her sons are big enough to help with. While Rod is "chairbound" and thinking deep thoughts in the cozy corner, she has to manage just about everything in that home. So she's probably too busy to think about much she's just getting through. When the kids are up and out, I wouldn't be surprised if she started getting pretty PO'ed.
But yes, I wonder what she makes of a lot of this too.
But yes, I wonder what [Julie] makes of a lot of this too.
DeleteThe poor lady has had lot of practice, I'm afraid. There were recently the string of posts about Dreher's buddy-trip to Italy for the Palio (which he referred to as "life as it ought to be lived" -- reasonably interpret-able to mean life without the wife and kids). And from a few years back, his posting about his solo trip to Amsterdam (great food and great beer!) and saying "I love you" to (sadly) a dying female friend, not to mention the descriptions of his life as a randy sex fiend back in the day. So she may be numb, if not simply ignoring, much of what hubby posts.
Having said all that, I gotta think that the mama bear would come out when it starts to concern her little girl .....
I can't even imagine what Mrs. Dreher thinks - her husband's absolute obsession with homosexuality and past forays into soft-core porn on his blog (always in a "look at how horrifying this is" tone while giving the impression he's typing with one hand). If Rod's recent trip, prancing gayly around southern Europe with another man (Roy Edroso's blog, which followed Dreher's misadventures for a long time, had the priceless comment that the photo of Rod and Sordello looked like they could be walking hand-in-hand at that very moment down the streets of Provincetown, MA, New England's gay Mecca), didn't raise some alarm bells, I don't know what would.
DeleteBut this whole "I sure hope my daughter gets beaten if she's uppity" thing is, if possible, even creepier than Rod's Paul Linde imitation.
I wish, for at least Rod's family's health, that Rod would simply get a job as a professor at some little conservative college. He could use one of his patrons like Howard Ahmanson, Jr. (who gets a thank you in one of his books) who's already opening doors for his books to put in a good word (and some money, of course). He's a very good writer - he could teach, he could be happy. He might even feel confident enough to finally come out as gay at some point, which might be a good thing in the long run.
But this manic exhibitionism and bitterness has got to eat away at a person's soul. And as odious a human being as Rod might have become, his family doesn't deserve to suffer for it.
I can't help but wonder what Julie thinks of Rod's chilling "quips" about their daughter. I often wonder what she thinks of a lot of his blogging, but especially this disturbing post we've been discussing.
ReplyDeleteLet's say you were a passive-aggressive, narcissistic writer and you wanted to smack your wife around in a way she couldn't really respond to easily, to show her who wears the pants in the family...
A comment in full from Rod's most recent post attacking a young person (who, to be fair, is pretty ridiculous, but still...)
ReplyDeletemiliukov says:
November 4, 2015 at 3:09 pm
Rod — it’s probably going to sound like I am going all concern-troll with this comment.
But I’ve been a reader of this blog for ages — back to Beliefnet days. I check for updates multiple times a day; I read almost every post; and a very high percentage of the comments. I myself don’t comment much because usually I can count on someone else to say something better, and sooner, than I could have.
You’ve been a good host, and your patience to moderate the combox is what brings so many people here to reflect and think and engage. It’s like a Oasis Of Consideration on the internet. Shocking I know.
But, man, you’ve picked up a nasty tone lately.
And I just don’t even understand what you hope to achieve. There’s a million guys nastier and snarkier than you out there; but very few that are more thoughtful when you choose to be. Play to your strengths!
I am someone who has — whoa — changed my opinion on matters, important matters, maybe even eternal matters, based on what I’ve read here. But now I click through all the posts and it’s like you just want to…
…
I don’t know…something…but not the thing that inspires people like me to read and engage and that can advance a discussion or revelation (small “r”).
In just a handful of recents posts you’ve —
— made fun of people with mental health issues around suicide, calling them “crazy” (I hope you never have to deal with it firsthand someday)
— advocated having your children beaten up for misbehavior
— made a point of using the word “butthurt”…?! in an argument. [As an aside, when I hear the word “widget” in economics; the phrase “cram it down our throats” discussing gay rights; the Churchill quote “Russia is an enigma wrapped in a riddle…etc.” — I feel quite safe in ignoring the point that is certainly not being made. Butthurt is in that category.]
— chose that picture of Hillary Clinton…seriously? What is the point of that
— seem to be totally obsessed with the word “penis”
— just generally been slagging and sarcasm-ing your way through the past weeks
— and worst of all :) no View From Your Tale in ages!
Obviously it’s your blog and you can, and should, write whatever you want.
But you have a voice, and I’d just encourage you to use it better than the idiots who I am absolutely certain fill up your inbox every day.
I’ll still be hanging around btw. Hope you will too.
Very interesting. "Miliukov" made his admittedly rare comment really count. He pretty much hits all the currently important points and delivers it with compassion. Rod posted it, which is interesting. I sure hope he reflects on it. If I were more pop-psychology-oriented, I might wonder if Rod's publishing of this comment is in the area of "a cry for help," as they say. I haven't gone to the blog to see if he's NFR'd it or anything.
DeleteWait, Anon Leftie . . . I went looking and can't find that comment anywhere. Can you provide a direct link, or has Rod taken it down?
DeleteIt's still there, for now - http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/bernie-sanders-national-socialist/#post-comments
DeleteOK, thanks. No NFR on that (but one a few comments down on his plans for his "gullet" again).
DeleteRod gets invited to speak at some very civilized forums. I wonder if some day soon, one or more of them who admire his "better" work will decide the persona he presents in his blog when he's in snarky/obsessive/bullying/abusive mode is not something they want to be associated with, and they'll reconsider the invitations.
"not to mention the descriptions of his life as a randy sex fiend back in the day."
ReplyDeleteHarrison Brace could explain a lot of that, I think.
But yeah, Rod's self-image of himself as some sort of tortured Casanova registers pretty high on the old BS meter. It's like he has to come up with these comic-book style origin stories - The Pantsing, The Shrieking Abortion Harpy, The Evil Gay Roommate...
But yeah, Rod's self-image of himself as some sort of tortured Casanova registers pretty high on the old BS meter.
DeleteThere are those here who have speculated on Rod's sexual orientation...I suspect for the vast majority of his life, rather than heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or asexual it has been hypothetical.
Anonymous Maximus
It's always appeared to me that Rod relishes demonstrating to his seal chorus how he can manipulate them at will, luring them in as the "conservative" liberals and gays can talk to, or, for conservatives, as the loudest talking inactive defender of the faith, or extorting their pity for a childhood depantsing or for injuring himself by reaching into a larder, before then mocking them by throwing all that back in their faces by acting out in whatever inappropriate way strikes his fancy at the moment.
ReplyDeleteLike any gimp broken to a hooded latex suit, a Rod Dreher trained seal must not only submit to being a Rod Dreher trained seal, he must also be trained to explicitly recognize that he is a Rod Dreher trained seal which will eat whatever is thrown his way.
Anyway, after administering a safe and gratuitous beat down on 20-something theology professor Katie Grimes (imagine him trying that sort of hair pulling on Mark Levin or Jonah Goldberg) our Bipolar Bishop of the BOpotamous is off, leaving our resident Catholics here at least some sort of consolation prize.
[NFR: There are four dozen raw oysters that are going to meet eternal justice tomorrow at lunch, via my gullet, at Felix’s. — RD]
Rod may never be Catholic again, but at least he will always be Roman in his compulsive gluttony.
Guess what happens to your faith, church, or other group if you allow Rod Dreher to appropriate you as part of his Benedict Option cult: you automatically become an endorser of this week's Rod Dreher, the chickenshit doxing, gluttonous, bullying poltroon, as much the real Rod Dreher as the one promising you pie in the sky with silver bullets on the side.
At least Rod's not letting us know about the snails he's going to eat on this trip.
ReplyDeleteWow. Even more comments:
ReplyDeleteBill says:
November 5, 2015 at 10:47 am
“But, man, you’ve picked up a nasty tone lately.
And I just don’t even understand what you hope to achieve. There’s a million guys nastier and snarkier than you out there; but very few that are more thoughtful when you choose to be.”
And I thought it was just me. Perhaps it’s EyDS(Election Year Derangement Syndrome). Perhaps Rod needs a vacation – do writers take vacations?
--------------------------------------------------
Dan R says:
November 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
I agree with miliukov. I don’t think I agree with Katie Grimes on most things, but this is a defensible point. I don’t think going after an obscure adjunct professor, the gleeful Francis conspiracy theories*, and basically everything else miliukov says is very healthy. I came here for the Dante writing, but now I am starting to read it for the Andrew Sullivan-style schadenfreude.
What DreRod doesn't realize is that even though the Orthodox Church does allow three marriages the Service for the last two is very penitential and is really nothing more than accepting that we are all sinners. DreRod has yet to even ponder that "eternal truth" ; that he is a sinner like all of us and an equally horrible writer. He needs to leave the Orthodox Church and pounce on the next shiny object as he has yet to be truly Orthodox. He is rarely referred to in Orthodox circles and I think that is what is fueling his smarminess. "Why Oh why will nobody take me seriously ! "
ReplyDelete"He is rarely referred to in Orthodox circles. . . "
DeleteThis probably cannot be emphasized enough. I'm as irritated as anyone that he appears to be a loud voice "for" Orthodoxy in the public square, but really, nobody much is listening. Rod is not a thing in most Orthodox parishes. He's not only not influential to any serious degree, he's just not even known. I attend an Orthodox parish that seems to me to fit the profile of a place where he might be known, and no one, ever, mentions him. There's even a priest who I think may have encouraged Rod in the Muzhik thing (though I don't know this for sure), and that priest never, ever mentions Rod.
Come to think of it, if Rod were spiritually astute, he'd be thankful that his public image is as unknown as it is, both because that is the Orthodox way (avoiding fame, not presuming you Have The Answers for everything), and for the sheer mercy of being spared having his embarrassing public river of words, which he admits he sends out unedited and un-"polished," exposed to view more than it is.
Delete