OPEN LINE POST: All comments welcome!
This post/page on Est Quod Est is sort of like Rush Limbaugh's Open Line Friday. You can add any comment you want to here whether or not I'm interested in the topic at the moment. I will patronize you and pretend I care, and even nod my head sympathetically with a concerned Oprah look on my face.
For example:
ReplyDelete"can u freaking believe lamar odom still hasn't signed the papers for khloe's divrce?????!! omg"
Keith's original comment from this post:
ReplyDeleteIn a response to Dreher's ventriloqist's attempt to make his Catholic-bashing appear to come out of Ross Douthat's mouth, Erin Manning offers a shoe that fits:
Before we jump on the “resisting Pope Francis” bandwagon, it might be helpful to listen to things he’s actually, you know, saying:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/what-is-being-proposed-is-not-marriage-pope-calls-for-defense-of-family-12766
I know the “We Resist You to the Face” is Rod’s construct, not Douthat’s, but I have bad memories of it.
The game of fantasy ship-jumping appeals, or so I have found, to the sort of person who is likely to be tempted by pride to think that God quite possibly has anointed him or her personally (or at least some group with which he is happy to affiliate himself or herself) to save the Church from the pope. Yes, a handful of actual saints did have to correct the pope on certain occasions (and never, let’s be clear, on a matter of faith or morals–just on things like where the pope ought to live, and by that we mean France or Rome, not a big papal residence vs. a smaller apartment). But most of the saints discovered that call from a place of deep humility, and were, by many accounts, quite reluctant to undertake such a mission.
Pauli, at the original site of my comment you also added:
DeleteThe content of Keith's post is worth reading esp. noting how Erin Manning can be so obnoxious even when she's 99.9% correct.
Just to clarify, I wasn't pointing out Erin being obnoxious, (if anyone finds her obnoxious, though, I don't really care one way or the other) only that her comment seemed to fit Dreher like a Persian slipper.
It sure does fit him. She can be as obnoxious as she wants when she's doing that, AFAIAC.
Delete(Good thing for Dreher that he could bury her comment in a warehouse of 100+ others -- made it safe for him to "approve" it, to seem fair and open, you know.)
It seems to me Dreher has less use for Erin now that he's no longer Catholic, maybe to the point that she's become a liability she wasn't back on Beliefnet when he wowed her into keeping his readers clicking while he went on vacation, and for free.
DeleteNow he's dedicating whole posts to promoting that guy Featherstone's first book, but still no book love for Erin. Pretty obviously can't be a conflict of interest problem, so maybe he's just worried that touting a kid's book by an unknown English major might make him look less than A-list by association. Maybe she should try sending him some plum brandy.
Maybe I read the whole thing wrong, but when she writes "I know the “We Resist You to the Face” is Rod’s construct, not Douthat’s, but I have bad memories of it," I think that's convoluted. Why doesn't she talk in a voice directly to Dreher in the 2nd person if she wants to engage/challenge/rebuke him? What's this "before we jump on the bandwagon" construct? Is that the "royal we"?
DeleteSiarlyis J., of all people, has the best comment. It begins by echoing what I have been stating for years now: It’s funny that Rod just can’t let go of the Roman Catholic Church, even after publicly proclaiming it to be NOT the repository of truth. To anyone who challenges the thinking of himself and his friend Ross, he smugly responds “You don’t understand Catholic thinking, do you?”
Read the whole thing, it's good.
BTW, this is exactly the kind of thing that I envisioned discussing on the open thread page.
Pauli, I think that's obvious. Erin, of all people, isn't going to talk to Rod directly on this of all subjects, particularly on his own blog where he typically traffics in things like "I can't help but conclude your mother has sex with multiple farm animals. Be advised anyone who wants to discuss this had better do it civilly."
DeleteSo instead she describes a hash mark-ridden pair of underwear in Rod's size with his name stitched in the waistband - should anyone be missing one and wish to claim it.
Oh Rod is so mad. He's probably going to need a nap. It's hilarious and beautiful to behold. I am especially relishing the comments serving his insipid "Mottramism" coinage right back to his befuddled, bespectacled visage. Take that and put it in your goozlepipe with a fistful of bacon, dude.
ReplyDeleteHis schadenfreude for the Church is disturbing.
And that said, the Featherstone business seems quite sketchy to me. What exactly is this super secret history of (some unspeakable sin?) that got him rejected from the ministry--but you'll have to read the book to find out? And the stuff about having been involved in radical Islam--which in my book would be enough to dq him right there--isn't too scandalous to print? What on earth is even going on with that mess?
At least Dreher is underselling it in typical Dreherian fashion (i.e., saying more about himself than he does about the book)(emphasis added by me):
DeleteI’m not kidding when I say this: Charles Featherstone has written an American spiritual classic. I have never read a book like this — one that’s so ragged, raw, and real. I couldn’t put it down, except that one time, when the shock of recognition was so great that I had to set the book aside and think deeply about what I had just read...
...It’s impossible to say which [sic] book is going to become a hit or not, but if this memoir finds the audience it deserves, it will be one of the biggest religious books of the year. Seriously, I’m not just saying that. I’ll stop writing about it now, because I want to save the comments for when it’s published....
Gag me with a spoon, as they used to say.
I, I, I, I....
DeleteIt reminds me of the scene in Iron Man 2 when Gwyneth Paltrow's character says "If you the word 'I' one more time I will actually hurl something at your head."
Dreher's just sucking up to Featherstone who, unlike early devoted fan Manning who brung him, has at least some pedigree in recognized social conservative circles, because any opportunity to lay down some cross pollination favors for the Dante book is a good one for him. This isn't about whether Featherstone's book is good for the reader, it's whether the writer Featherstone is good for Rod (not much breathless anticipation anywhere else for the Dante book, is there?).
ReplyDeleteOf secondary amusement, at least to me, is the growing disillusionment of #2 Catholic girlfriend Bernie, successor to #1 Catholic girlfriend Manning, as Rod keeps insisting to her how gay the Catholic clergy are. Dude's a user, whoever you are.
Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, says this in his coming-out-as-gay statement:
ReplyDeleteI’m proud to be gay, and I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me.
Somehow, I'm thinking that he doesn't mean that in the sense that the challenge of his orientation has given him the opportunity to offer to God his sacrifice and struggle in being chaste. Just sayin'.
Funny, I would have pegged becoming CEO of Apple as the mountaintop gift allowing him to finally come out as gay. Unless Apple has some serious executive track programs for openly gay mail room boys. But, being Apple and all, maybe they do.
DeleteLOL; spot on. His comment is so worthy of ridicule.
DeleteObamacon Wick Allison's pocket pal Dreher hangs Sharyl Attkisson up by her thumbs by pretending to be "shocked" - a flexibly useful term if there ever was one - at her book's story.
ReplyDeleteOf course, true to Dreher's rodentine form, he highlights the odd things that happened on her FIOS line, painting her as a looney, thereby retroactively calling her journalistic revelations about CBS and the Obama administration into question.
And yet there are still those raptly eager to let this greasy little passive-aggressive weasel lead them to God.
That's funny. Cub Reporter Rod Dreher using hearsay from one commenter to question first-hand facts reported by a real journalist.
DeleteYou know you've got a healthy cash cow herd to milk when they sneer at Sharyl Attkisson on cue while embracing voodoo.
DeleteWho are Rod Dreher's commenters?
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Lena Dunham post, a disproportionately high number of people who have been sexually molested by their own family members, including males molested by their older sisters.
As such, this also means a statistically higher number of teeth missing from the collective psychological gear cases assembled there, tenured academics and yearning searchers of various stripes though they otherwise may be.
This, for you DIYers following at home, is how you found your own cult of followers: scrape together a pool of those slightly broken or needy in some deep way, and promise them hope and change through the sound of your voice.
If that doesn't work, there's always voodoo.
Another thing maybe so obvious as to be missed is how his people eat this sort of thing up - unlike the Dante posts which usually attract only a handful of comments.
DeleteAdd to that the observation that this Dunham chick may arguably be peddling purely made up outrage bait to those oddly eager to lap such stuff up without asking too many questions.
SCIENCE.
ReplyDeleteSCIENCE, I TELL YOU
Talk among yourselves about it.
While Dreher believes it to be "an interesting way to frame our political differences", I read the questions in the paper differently. Seemed to me the paper was saying that "tight" means laws-against-things-we-authors-want-to-do (smoke dope and have gay weddings), and no-laws-against-things-we-want-to-prohibit (corporal punishment in schools). Church means "tight" also.
DeleteAny paper that rates Texas as significantly "tighter" than Minnesota, Massachusetts, and California needs a different definition of "tight" and "loose".
As the Fraters Libertas guys (I think) said, "In Minnesota, if it's not prohibited, it's mandatory."
DeleteI'd use that definition for "tightness".
The new reader of an online 'zine called The American Conservative would, with reason, think that such a publication would be at least optimistic, if not downright triumphant, over the results of Tuesday's election.
ReplyDeleteThat new reader would be mistaken.
Totally off-topic: A Facebook friend whom I've always loved and admired just told me I'm a Bad Catholic because I listen to Christmas music before Christmas. :p
ReplyDeleteI thought he was kidding. He wasn't.
Tell the friend you're still listening to it from last Christmas. Like those Christmas lights that are never taken down...
DeleteLOL. That's a thought.
DeleteHe's a convert to Eastern Catholicism. I don't know what it is about these Eastern folks, They can be soooo legalistic.
I mean, I can see why you wouldn;t sing"Joy to the World" during the liturgy during Advent. But you can't even listen to it on a CD in your car??? WTH?
Grand irony: I'm not even talking about conventional Christmas music. I have very weird tastes: shape-note carols, renaissance polyphony, Celtic stuff. I mean, we're not talking "Jingle Bells." But this guy still insists I'm not "living as a Catholic" if I listen to this stuff now through Advent. Yikes.
Sorry for all the typos. Typing quickly, at work.
DeleteSo, my friend -- and he really is a friend -- just posted that he'd learned his lesson: If he defends the Church's liturgical calendar, he'll get all kinds of grief. Um, no.
DeleteThen one of his friends chimed in: "As Michael Voris says, get yourself on the ark. Most won't ever get passage."
So, now I'm off of the Ark because I listen to the Boston Camerata's *An American Christmas* on the headphones at work before midnight on Christmas Eve.
The list of mortal sins keeps expanding.I mean, who knew?
Stuart?
DeleteNo, not Stuart, believe it or not!! Will email you later. It's starting to get to me, frankly.
DeleteWell, if listening to Christmas music before Christmas is a mortal sin, then I can only imagine what Circle of Hell I'll merit when we put up our tree the day after Thanksgiving!
My son is practicing Joy to the World and We Three Kings on the piano to get ready for a Christmas recital. So our house is going to HELL in a hand basket.
DeleteI'll flip on Black Sabbath when I get home to sort of clear the air.
LOL!!!!!
DeleteHey, those grade-school nuns who had us kids put on Christmas pageants and skits during Advent must all be roasting now, too.
ReplyDeleteOK, before this guy deletes his latest thread, as he did his previous one, here's an exchange between a pious lady and moi:
ReplyDeletePious Lady: You are entitled to your opinion Diane and so is Lou. I personally don't view living liturgically as a burden. I see why Lou Pizzuti deleted the first thread. People are not listening to one another. I don't even know Bill, so he can respond. I am off to study. God bless.
4 mins · Like
Diane Marie Kamer God bless you, too. And yes, these *are* opinions. That's the point, though. They are NOT being presented here as mere opinions. They are being presented as prescriptions. When they are presented as *more* than opinions, that's when I have a problem. If I am told I am not "living as a Catholic" or that I will fall off of the Ark if listen to "Hark the Herald Angels Sing" during Advent...then yes, I am being treated to more than just someone's opinion. I am being told that I am a Bad Catholic and possibly not even en route to salvation. You don't see a problem with this?
So I guess there is no time during the year that one could listen to the entirety of Handel's Messiah, as it pretty much covers Advent, Christmas, Good Friday, and Easter. We'd have to stick only to the particular movements suitable for the season, at the peril of our souls ("DON'T SKIP TO THE NEXT TRACK ... NOOOOO!")
DeleteLol, Pik. Good point.
DeleteHer reference to "burden" was in response to my point that the Church does NOT forbid us to listen to Christmas music during Advent, and that imposing such a burden (NOT one that Church herself imposes) is the st=ort of thing that ties scrupulous people into pretzels.
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say, Pious Lady completely missed the point.
How hard is it to understand that, when we invent rules the Church does NOT impose, that's legalism?? And that legalism is bad for souls?
I mean, chacun a son gout. If you want to abstain from Christmas music before Christmas, be my guest. But don't tell other people that they're "not living as Catholics" if they do not follow your example. This isn't "expressing an opinion." It's bullying.
Just for that, Diane, I'll teach myself Adeste Fideles on the ukulele and sing it throughout Advent.
DeleteLol, thank you.
DeleteI know I'm silly to take these people seriously. But I'm one of those scrupulous OCD folks who are susceptible to this legalistic nonsense. I need reassurance from sane people that it's really as crazy as I think it is.
My husband reassured me of this tonight. All other reassurances are greatly appreciated -- yours, Pik's, and Pauli's. Thank you!
Listening to "An American Christmas" right now, in honor of your excellent musical taste. We have no time for Pharisees here.
Delete"Whiiiiiiiiiiile shepherds watched their flocks by night . . . . "
Thank you, Andreas! Another Boston Camerata fan -- woohoo!
DeleteMy alma mater's mascot apparently stepped too hard on an eggshell. And the model of apologies issued forthwith, including the soon-to-be mandatory constructs of "Chicana/o and Latina/o communities".
ReplyDeleteP.S. One data point: Mrs. Pik (a member of said communities) was not offended by Goldy, but rather was offended by the apology.
Pauli, I don't know your take on the tragic shooting this week in your town, but you may find it interesting that Cub Investigative Crime Beat Reporter Rod Dreher has how weighed in with his rush to judgment on that one.
ReplyDeleteY'all ... Check out lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com -- I think that's the URL. Far left and weird. But great takedown of Dreher.
ReplyDeleteOoooh, forgot to mention the best part: About halfway down the combox, someone approvingly links to Pauli's review of Little Way. Then several others chime in to agree that it was a great review. Priceless!!! Pauli, your brilliant work is appreciated.
ReplyDeleteHappy Thanksgiving, y'all!
Thanks, Diane. Here is the exact link.
DeleteThis Amazon review does a good job analyzing the book as a window into Rod’s pathologies. Spoiler alert: Rod is making up bullshit."
That was very gratifying to read, thanks again. One of the response calls the review "wonderfully understated". I don't know if that is meant as a compliment, but I certainly take it as one. I think it's the best way in which to make certain points, esp. against someone like Dreher who is always overstating everything.
I think it was definitely meant as a compliment! :D
Delete