Helping Wikipedia keep current
I was over at the Wikipedia page for the famous public person, Rod Dreher, and I noted that the article was woefully behind the times. Since it is a locked article, I could not edit it myself, so I did the next best thing and left a helpful criticism on the "Talk page". It reads as follows:
Incomplete / out-of-date
The article states that the subject is a past contributor to the American Conservative, but he is now a full time blogger at that web publication.
The manner and order in which this article is written makes it seem like the most significant thing the subject has done is to leave the Roman Catholic church and criticize that church for abuse of children by homosexual clergy members. I am not sure the subject would agree with this characterization.
The article doesn't mention the subject's newest book, The Little Way of Ruthie Leming, either. This was written about the author's dead sister. Instead it mentions a proposed book titled The Benedict option which has not been written yet.
Of course, we have numerous sources to see absolute everything that is going on with the subject including his wonderful TAC blog, our own articles here at Est Quod Est and Topix, not to mention the Bonnie Blue Review. I'd think that his new publisher would at least want to update his Wikipedia page with the info about The Little Way of Ruthie Leming: A Southern Girl, a Small Town, and the Secret of a Good Life. But maybe they know that people who look up things on Wikipedia don't read books like that. If you give an author a million dollar advance to write a book you obviously know your business better than I do.
Is Rod Dreher the Linda Richman of Blogging?
ReplyDeleteTalk amongst yourselves.
I tend to think of Rod Dreher as the aromatherapy of religious, cultural, or pretty much any other kind of intellectual effort.
DeleteBut he sure writes purty, glistening in the sun like a gorgeous, iridescent soap bubble, fragile, ephemeral one-dimensional form containing little or no content of its own. *pop*
Keith
Oh, the suspense. Will he or won't he?
DeleteOr will he just keep us on the edges of our seats?
Tune in next week . . . .
The Benedict Option is neither Bendictine nor an option. Discuss.
ReplyDeleteWell, I think that Rod has decided it's not an option. He has moved around far more than I have in the last 25 years, so there goes the "oath of stability" thing.
DeleteBut Mark Levin already dealt with the possibility of Rod taking his own advice: "I think 'the Benedict Option' would be good for Rod. Will he be blogging from Drehertown? Will Drehertown segregate itself from the Internet and talk radio, so as not to be polluted by the rest of us? Now, this will have broad appeal with the American people, don't you think? This is the way back for the GOP and conservatism — 'the Benedict Option.' Rod is a self-deluded kook. He is also thin-skinned, like so many of the kooks with God-complexes and a keyboard."
This was four years ago. If you missed it then you ought to read it now. It is a howl.
I think this is the point where straight man/sidekick Keith Keithster stands at his mike stage right and innocently asks how Mark's latest book is doing compared to Rod's.
DeleteActually, I may have to disagree with you a bit, Pauli. Rod has in fact already taken the Benedict Option.
Now, granted, "Benedict Option" sure sounds far more grand than retiring to his "mono" fainting couch and blogging to an insular cult of scrupulously selected sycophants, but the corner Dreher finds himself painted into these days does meet all the technical requirements of the BO. Not with a bang, but a whimper, so to speak.
Keith
Good call, Keith. He's only renting at this moment, however he does have his own church set up. Plus he might have his eyes set on the family homestead as his permanent residence. So it looks like he has the enclave/platoon thing set up.
DeleteLevin's book rocks from what I've heard.
I don't really want to comment on the whole subject of Rod's health. I wish him well, and I hope he's not stupid enough to go to the idiot town butcher who misdiagnosed his sister.
I was just making a Linda Richman reference, you didn't really have to discuss ; )
DeleteI feel badly about my comment now, Pauli, mainly because I've been having a bunch of the same symptoms myself.
DeleteWhen I wanted to fly my girlfriend to L.A. the other day for a quick day trip, no problem. Then, when I wanted to drive her down to New Orleans a few days after that for a great meal after she interviewed someone about food deserts, no sweat. I even have the strength most of the time to light the grill and turn some good steaks on it, thank goodness.
But when it comes time to mow her yard in this terrible summer heat, it's just about all I can do to set my beer down and hit the mute button on ESPN. If you don't have my condition, you can't even imagine how bad that makes me feel. Fortunately, I was able to make it up to her, or at least get her to stop calling me the p-word, by treating her to some new clothes and a lawn guy for the rest of the season. Maybe I'll be better next year. I sure hope so.
In the meantime, though, I'm cursed with this mysterious malady which restricts me to doing only those things I enjoy doing. Coincidence? I don't think so. I usually don't pay much heed to this kind of thinking, but it's starting to sound like some kind of bad karma to me.
While I wage my battle with my struggle, I also want to thank all the people I got to feel sorry for me for feeling that way. Though a small achievement, it does give me a little more strength to turn those steaks.
Keith
In the meantime, though, I'm cursed with this mysterious malady which restricts me to doing only those things I enjoy doing. Coincidence? I don't think so. I usually don't pay much heed to this kind of thinking, but it's starting to sound like some kind of bad karma to me.
DeleteKeith--just cathcing up here--brilliant. Selective mono is definitely the way to go if you can do it without feeling guilty or ending up in a serious doghouse situation.
Yes, I thought it was brilliant, too. And funny. Meant to comment earlier. Keith, you so rock.
DeleteAw, guess who else had a terrible awful struggle with chronic fatigue let's call it (Hint: it wasn't Ruthie, she had an actual illness):
Deletehttp://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/eric-metaxas-ruthie-leming/
"Eric struggled for a long, long time with chronic fatigue, the seriousness of which I didn’t fully appreciate until I had to deal with it myself."
DeleteThere really is such a thing as chronic fatigue syndrome, though. The shrink who first prescribed my life-saving Luvox apparently went through a bout. And he was a good, solid guy, so I assume he was not faking it or anything.
DeleteDiane, just to be clear, I'm not casting aspersions on Dreher for having chronic fatigue syndrome, if that's what he really has.
DeleteI'm casting aspersions on him for using any ailment he may or may not have at any time as a passive-aggressive subliminal appeal to pity so people won't be so cruel and mean to him in his obviously medically infirm state as to take issue with anything he says.
It's the passive-aggressive, pity-invoking aspects of his bullying that makes him so contemptibly vile in my eyes, less than a man, less, even, than any child of ordinary character.
Keith
I presume your shrink didn't have the Dreher variety of CF, wherein one travels to europe for ten days without any pressing need for doing so, drinks and eats with abandon, visits multiple cities and appears to be symptom free. I can't speak to the Metaxas variety of CF, I simply point out that Dreher himself says he has what Metaxas had...which comparison, for all I know, may be unfair to Metaxas.
DeleteLOL, yes, you're right, Kathleen, my shrink didn't have the dreherrian version. And Keith, you are so right. An erstwhile friend of mine called this the powers of the weak. Passive-aggressive manipulation and bullying...yep, check.
DeleteWell, we are all surprised, I guess, to learn that Ruthie was a really Moral Therapeutic Deist.
ReplyDeleteSo round and round it goes, where she stops, nobody knows.
Pauli, when I read through that article above, I actually started to get nauseous, especially at the 3rd paragraph from the bottom. There is just something that is very sickening and self-serving about this. It bothers me.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I am overreacting, but this endless harping on the same stuff about his sister over and over and over again in a public blog has become odious and disgusting. The man has issues and needs psychiatric counseling in private.
This is getting way too creepy for me.
Over the course of my life, I have met at least four narcissistic people, and RD has got to be the leading candidate for Clinical Case Number Five, surpassing all the others I have encountered before.
And I almost tossed my cookies when one comment said: "Rod, this is an awesome post, not only for its profound content, but for the consistently gracious comments it has elicited. You are again to be thanked."
This is freaking insane. I am rethinking my own book review of TLWORL and might take it down altogether. I am now wondering if there was anything real in the book, or was it all just the product of one very sick mind?
Narcissism is as good a term as any for an Internet diagnosis. Non-Ruthie examples in the last two weeks include the "God spoke to me today, which reminds me of a blog post I wrote" post Diane linked to, and the "Now that I have literally built my own church, I finally feel truly Orthodox" bit in the post Oengus has just linked to.
Delete"Was anything real in the book?" is an ill-posed question. In Rodworld, what is real is what Rod is feeling at this exact moment, and what Rod is feeling at this exact moment is what is real.
Since at this exact moment Rod doesn't feel his book adequately captures what a cramped, narrowminded, awful person his sister the saint was, it doesn't much matter whether anything presented as historical fact in the book actually occurred. It may have just been a Great Theme presented as historical fact as a marketing decision -- did I say "marketing decision"? I should have said "editorial decision."
As for the insanity of his sycophants, that's selection bias at work.
Oengus and Tom, those are such perceptive comments. And yes, "narcissist" strikes me as a spot-on diagnosis.
DeleteOh my gosh, that post Oengus linked to...mamma mia.
ReplyDeleteA friend of ours in our new Dallas parish said not to despair, that it takes about 10 years to really become Orthodox.
Yeah, that's what the Rosicrucians say, too. What is this -- the Secret Gnosis? When you master the phronema, do they give you magic underwear?
Sounds like the perfect religion for a gnostic elitist like Rod. He gets to feel smarter and more spiritual than those unwashed hoi polloi in other, less esoteric, less rigorist churches. And he can build his own teeny intentional church community in his back yard, so he doesn't even have to mix with the masses. Win-win.
Yikes. I read that post to the end. (Skimmed it, I mean...who can stand to read dreherrhea word for word?)
DeleteOengus is right. Obsessive and creepy. And yes, narcissistic. "She was a saint to the world but a big meanie to ME, ME, ME!"
Yikes. Words fail me.
About that "10 years to become Orthodox" thing: Catholics become Catholics when they are baptized or confirmed / received into the Catholic Church. It takes a lifetime of daily conversions to be sanctified and purified, but you don't have to jump through spiritual hoops over a number of years simply to become Catholic. This is biblical: Baptism is the Sacrament of Initiation; there is no ten-year entrance requirement after baptism.
DeleteWhat a weird faith Rod has embraced. But I do not take Orthodoxy to task for this. As ex-Orthodox (Catholic revert) Gabriel Sanchez has observed, there is no such thing as Orthodoxy in America. Rather, there are Orthodoxies, each one convinced that its little niche is normative. Rod's Convert Orthodoxy is perhaps the strangest of these little Ortho-Niches -- certainly far stranger than a large, mostly cradle church like the Greek Orthodox. It's a hothouse where exotic flowers bloom with intense but ultimately weird and artificial colors.
Gnostic is definitely the word for someone who holds that it takes so long to understand faith and religion and who also holds that his sister--who had an aversion to religious things like Bible studies--was a saint.
DeleteI've said it before, and I haven't changed my mind: Rod didn't believe his sister was a saint. No way, no how. It's all just part of the MTD ploy of the book.
I think that when Orthodox people say it takes "10 years to 'become' Orthodox", they mean that it takes 10 years to lose one's "convert" hangups and baggage and really feel "at home" in Orthodoxy. It's not intended in a gnostic sense, and I've never heard cradle Orthodox describe any such process -- I suppose because they've never known any other religious context.
DeleteOf course, I've also heard ethnic Orthodox say they were "born" Orthodox, which is obviously ridiculous. You can't be born a Christian, you can only be *reborn* as one.
It's not really precise language. But then again, Orthodoxy doesn't really excel at precision. But there are a whole bevy of unwritten culture, norms and "way things are done" to being Orthodox that are *extremely* frustrating for many converts to deal with. It's just different, that's all I know.
Of course, to those outside Orthodoxy, it just looks like a strange little cult (and culture) that takes about 10 years to be fully initiated into. Or in other ways it looks like converts to Orthodoxy are "rejecting" the West and just learning how to act like Greeks or Russians. In some ways I suppose there is some truth to that. There's a reason that the Catholic - Orthodox divide mirrors a number of other cultural and sociological divides within European culture. And maybe it's fair to accuse the more "zen" approach of Orthodoxy as being too obscurantist and mystical, and yes, narcissistic.
I don't really know. But I am coming to the conclusion that the Absolute Divine Simplicity vs. Energy/Essences Distinction has had more theological and social implications for the development of "East vs West" than many people are willing to admit.
Yes, the "10 years to become Orthodox" makes sense to me, particularly in an environment in which so many people seem to be converting away from something else as much as converting to Orthodoxy -- or, as in Rod's case, both away from something else and toward some impossibly romantic, even Gandalfian ideal. You can't really understand what Orthodoxy is until you stop understanding it in terms of what it is not. (The same is true, of course, of anything that is not defined by what it is not.)
DeleteFrom the time I first heard of Rod Dreher, in 2002, people have been trying to explain to him that the Catholic Church isn't, and isn't supposed to be, what he wants it to be -- viz, an organization filled with men who feel at this exact moment exactly what Rod feels, and acts in exactly the way he wants them to act. People have been warning him that he sure sounds like he's on a spiritual journey toward a perfect church of one.
I'll leave it to the Orthodox to say whether Rod has now figured out what being Orthodox is. I will merely note the coincidence between his having arranged to have his own private church and his assertion that he's figured out what being Orthodox is.
Good points, Tom. You'll note that Dreher has astutely managed to avoid any of the large ethnic parishes that make up the vast majority of the Orthodox population in the US, mostly in the Greek Archdiocese.
DeleteROCOR, having as its core the comparatively tiny Russian migrations of the 20th C., is very happy to have a "big name" "conservative" like Dreher come over from the OCA.
Of course, what's a little scary about ROCOR is how involved Putin was in the rapprochement between ROCOR and Moscow. Dreher finds himself in a jurisdiction that, as time goes on, seems more and more to function as a diplomatic organ of the Moscow Patriarchate, itself becoming more and more an organ of the Russian state.
As far as Dreher's Orthodoxy -- it's convert 101 (literally the first thing converts usually learn) that you don't discuss or broadcast spiritual experiences you have with anyone but your parish priest or spiritual father. So I'll let that speak to how "advanced" Dreher's Orthodoxy is.
PLease. It takes "ten years to become" anything. Ten years to be a real fisherman. Ten years to really know how to play piano. Ten years after moving to any given neighborhood to really know the ins and outs of said neighborhood. There is precisely nothing special about Orthodoxy in this instance, so get over it.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Kathleen. Amen, preach it, sister.
DeleteI for one am getting very tired of this constant mantra (e.g., at Gabriel Sanchez's blog) that Orthodoxy is somehow "ontologically different" from all of Western Christianity -- not to mention harder, more challenging, more spiritual, more mystical, more inscrutable, and more difficult to "master." Makes it sound like Zen Buddhism crossed with Basic Training, with some Rosicrucianism, Swedenborgianism, and Scientology thrown in for good measure.
As for the ten-year thing: I think we need to make a distinction here. There's a difference between initiation (usually via baptism and/or confirmation/chrismation) and the lengthy life-long process of sanctification / purification. When you are initiated via the Sacraments of Initiation, you are a Catholic (or Orthodox for that matter)...period. You don't have to wait ten years to really be a Catholic. Baptism makes you Christian; baptism or confirmation/reception in the Catholic Church makes you a Catholic Christian. Simple as that. You don't have to earn your wings over a ten-year period before you can feel entitled to call yourself a real Catholic. That should be the same for Orthodoxy; if it's not, then there's something wrong with Orthodoxy.
Do you grow, mature, and gradually appropriate your faith more fully -- not only over a ten-year period but throughout your life? Of course. Are you constantly learning more about your faith, constantly deepening your faith, constantly experiencing deeper conversion? Of course. That's true for ALL Christians, Catholic, Orthodox, and even (gasp) Protestants. Even Baptists grow in their faith, for goodness' sakes. As you say, Kathleen, constant growth and learning are part and parcel of LIFE. This is not something that's peculiar to Orthodoxy -- not even remotely.
Yet one is Catholic right from the get-go. One doesn't have to grow into Catholic Identity before one can consider oneself Catholic. Sanctification is a process. Initiation isn't. The only "process" is RCIA..and babies get to bypass that one. ;)
Life-long growth makes one a saint. Baptism makes one a Catholic.
It's funny that you've taken something Dreher said about Orthodoxy as normative, which you've subsequently used to attack Orthodoxy with.
DeleteIf Dreher doesn't know what he's talking about (a position I think you'll agree with), then using him as a source for your opinions on Orthodoxy is, well, self-defeating.
Orthodoxy is very, very clear that once one is baptized and chrismated, and then receives communion, they are fully a member of the Church (initiation consists of these three parts, which is why the western practice of delaying chrismation or communion seems nonsensical us). We even sing "Those who are baptized into Christ have put on Christ" during a baptism.
I don't know whether or not Orthodoxy is really more spiritual, mystical, etc. But I think most everyone can agree that it is *foreign* to and *different* to Western Christianity. Heck, even my generally theologically ignorant Catholic relatives have accused Orthodoxy of feeling "Eastern" or "Buddhist" to them.
Unless, of course, you think Orthodoxy *is* ontologically the same as Catholicism, and the Schism is the result of nothing but vulgar nationalism and bad faith on the part of the Orthodox.
But like I said in an above comment, I do think there are some serious cultural and theological differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, and I think that difference ultimately flows from how the two religions conceive of God's essence and operation.
Then, the question becomes, "Who is right?" But insisting on telling the Orthodox that no, they aren't different, when they do indeed *feel* themselves to be very different to Western Christians, strikes me as engaging in activity akin to spitting in the wind. It doesn't get you anywhere, and it certainly doesn't bring the Orthodox closer to Catholicism.
Well, I think this whole "we're so different"shtick is relatively recent, as Gabriel has pointed out. That's why people in the Old Country used to inter-commune all the time without batting an eye. (Many examples available...Dr. Tighe can provide 'em.)
DeleteCatholicism's perspective is that there "lacks little" for complete reunion with the Orthodox. Goodness, Judge, we even have Eastern Catholic rites and churches, complete with all the icons and iconostases and Great Lents your little heart could desire.
Yes, sorry, but I do think the whole "ontological difference" thing exists mostly in Convert Orthodox's minds. So, sue me.
Btw...what you tell me about Orthodox baptism just confirms my point. As I suspected, the Orthodox DO view baptism/initiation the same way we Catholics do. Thank you!
DeleteAnd no, I don't take Dreher's view as representative. But you seemed to be agreeing with it. Both Kathleen and I picked up on that. That's what we were responding to.
Nope, wasn't agreeing, just translating what was meant by very imprecise, fuzzy terminology.
DeleteIn my experience of converts vs. cradles, it has been the clergy, especially the more traditionalist sort, who are the *most* critical of the West and Catholicism, and emphasize an "ontological" difference. Heck, just read a little of the writings of St. Justin Popovic to know what I'm referring to. The convert priests I know are generally more open-minded about Catholicism, and acknowledge that for some people it's a better choice than Orthodoxy.
You also have to understand that there are many different opinions between different Orthodoxies re: Catholicism. Sure, you'll find lots of Antiochian Orthodox who don't have much of a problem with communing Catholics, but for that reason, I know of Serbian priests who won't concelebrate with Antiochian priests.
Ooh, there are differences between orthodoxy and Catholicism? I've got news for you judge, there are differences between Irish Catholicism and Italian Catholicism. And German Catholicism and Polish Catholicism. Shoot, there are differences between my parish and the one across town. The "differences" are even "real". But the priests will still celebrate mass with one another because they are not assholes.
DeleteKathleen
You must be assuming that I think it's a good thing when Orthodox priests engage in that sort of thing. And indeed, a priest being an asshole like that is a terrible thing (but most Orthodox will just shrug and say something like "I'm trying to be honest, not nice").
DeleteI'm just trying to explain *how things are* in Orthodoxy, and I'm trying to find what *is* fundamentally and theologically different between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, so that I can find out who is right. They can't both be correct.
Rod Dreher as Defender of the Faith
ReplyDeleteI'll go now.
Keith
What horseshit. In fact the aptly named Bottum and Dreher continued to kiss each others asses lonnnnggg after 2002, much as dreher strenuously tries to make it appear otherwise in this link. ("Oooh he was so mean to me in 2002 bc i was such a faithful catholic!" yeah right) In fact Bottum's continued indulgence of Dreherrean nonsense is what compelled me to shun First Things in about 2007-08.
ReplyDeleteKathleen
what I mean to say is that Bottum and Dreher are birds of a feather. That's why Dreher has the knives out, Bottum is making Dreher look late to the party. stealing his righteous thunder.
DeleteI mean, really. In his gay marriage justifying essay, Bottum describes 'meeting [a gay friend] out on the Stuyvesant Town Oval on a summer afternoon to play some folk and bluegrass with the guitar strummers, mandolin pickers, autoharpers, and amateur banjo players who’d drift by. None of us any good, but fun, you know? Old-timey Americana like “Wayfaring Stranger,” “Pretty Saro,” and “The Orphan Girl.” A version of “Shady Grove,” I remember, was one of his specialties: When I was just a little boy, / all I wanted was a Barlow knife. / But now I am a great big boy, / I’m lookin’ for a wife.'
DeleteIf this delightful scene -- a "hootenanny" in the middle of Manhattan! -- isn't the very apotheosis of crunchy conservatism, I just don't know what is.
I know when it comes to gay marriage and religious liberty Rod Dreher likes to portray himself as a thundering Jeremiah and the Horatius at the Bridge of Christendom, but if you ever actually give what he writes on the subject a studied reading the most you ever find is a pre-pubescent Paul Revere confined to a one room apartment with a broom between his legs, scampering in circles as he slaps himself on the flank and practices lines he darn sure would say if absolutely, positively, no foolin' forced to.
DeleteAnything more would cost him blog hits and key connections with liberal and homosexual bloggers higher on the career ladder.
Keith
Or to put it another way, thinking of what Oengus and Tom have pointed out previously, no gay marriage = terrible, gay marriage accepted = terrible, and the biggest threat to Dreher from Bottum = a possible end to Always Impending But Never Quite Arriving Undefeatable Gay Marriage bloggy Cawfee Tawk.
DeleteDreher Cawfee Tawk depends upon a perpetual war with Eurasia (no matter what the issue is, really), and either defeat of gay marriage or acceptance of gay marriage would prove its doom.
When you're a Prophet like Dreher, the present and the past become your mortal enemies. Prophets require always receding futures.
Keith
The Rodster's blogging is just one endless personals ad, a love letter in invisible ink to Andy Sullivan, Eric Metaxas, Jody Bottum and all the other nancy boys who performed the neat trick of making money off of a bromance with Jesus. It's a disgusting, perverted little cult hiding in plain sight, and each of their coded communications with one another contains the secret password: "we hate girls".
DeleteI think Keith is rubbing off on me.
Kathleen
My very personal experience of Dreher has been that he does, indeed, hate women. He's truly a loathsome person.
DeleteOne thing that's always struck me about the nancy boy-con crowd is that of the ones that aren't "out", there seem almost no children despite their marriages, with the exception of Rod. John Zmirak, Michael Brendan Dougherty, Daniel Larison, etc. all seem sans offspring. I learned from this weekend's kerfluffle that Bottum of the flowing locks and bow ties has a single daughter, but that surprised me. Are paleos like them more infertile than the average, or is there something to the "women-are-icky-misogyny" rap?
Delete- The Man From K Street.
Dreher strikes me as being more anxious than most to cover his tracks, which may explain his relative fecundity.
DeleteAnd Dreher probably realizes he has left more tracks than most to cover. After all, there is something awfully resonant between his sister obsession, which extends to granting readers of his book an autopsical blow by blow of her death scene, and Sullivan's fevered obsession with the idiosyncrasies of Sarah Palin's lady parts.
DeleteAs far as my statements regarding Metaxas, for evidence look no further than:
Deletehttp://vimeo.com/66463753
it's truly astonishing.
Especially since Metaxas compares Dreher to both Quentin Crisp, and Wayland flowers and Madame, in the first 5 minutes.
DeleteAn effort to "cover tracks" would certainly explain his choices in clothing and personal appearance. Honestly, is Dreher color blind or something?
DeleteAnd as if on cue, the defender of the faith is taking a break from his primary beat to defend the world's precious bodily fluids from the predations of Miley Cyrus. Because nothing's too trivial to evade the all-seeing Eye of Rod.
DeletePray for poor little Nora Dreher, blissfully unaware, I'd imagine, of her usefulness already to date as Daddy's blog fodder in the great Dreher sausage machine. She's likely in for some rough public years between the time she puts her Barbie dolls away and the day she finally leaves Rodworld for good. Hopefully that won't be just by marrying the first guy she meets with a working car.
I can't for the life of me imagine what it must be like to be a female trapped in any sort of role within the four walls of Rodworld. Then of course the food's probably pretty good.
Keith
On his way to depending on the kindness of strangers, Blanche DuBois throws down the definitive theringness of there
Delete"And so forth. This means that at some level, we all believe that there is a moral dimension of sexual desire and expression. Our society is moving the lines to moralize homosexuality, which was formerly taboo. All I’m asking is that SSM proponents recognize that the traditionalist position may be wrong, but it is not unreasonable. That’s an important distinction, and one that calls for accommodation, at least while we go through this transitional stage of cultural evolution."
And so forth.
Kathleen, Oengus and others, do not be so cru-el as to task this frail thinker further with your interlocu-electrocutions about SSM, his own orientation, or how to make that perfect souffle. In the future, refer to this blog post so that he might conserve his energy for scraping up some more MTV video award slut fare for your bloggy breakfast.
Keith
Here's my waiting room diagnosis: homonucleosis.
DeleteBWAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!
DeleteKeith
All I’m asking is that SSM proponents recognize that the traditionalist position may be wrong, but it is not unreasonable. That’s an important distinction, and one that calls for accommodation, at least while we go through this transitional stage of cultural evolution.
DeleteYikes. Talk about squiffle.
Well, Rod-Man, guess you're more flexible and, er, mellow about that whole Lavender Mafia Thing now, eh?
The fact these two geniuses are named Rod and Bottum suggests God has a rather raunchy sense of humor.
DeleteThe fact these two geniuses are named Rod and Bottum suggests God has a rather raunchy sense of humor.
DeleteKathleen wins.
So, what does this all mean?
DeleteRod's going to visit his aunt and uncle on the farm in the country for the next nine months or so, right?
Keith
who's the daddy?
DeleteI think that's what gets worked out down on the farm.
DeleteMaybe its just the homonucleosis, but Dreher sure does sound like a man who's carrying a weight he wants to be rid of.
Keith
The, ahem, 'alternative' paper in Dallas seemed to think the truth was rather obvious, if unstated, during Rod's tenure there.
DeleteAs for Bottum, one really does wonder what the nature if his departure from FT actually was.
-The Man From K Street
Here's an Easter egg hunt for you, TMFKS. Find us a link to that CC/Beliefnet closeup photo Dreher posted of him and Dallas gay Godfather Rawlins Gilliland posing cheek to cheek.
DeleteThat Rodster, such a tease...
Keith
April 15, 2014. That is the date LWoRL comes out in paperback, and I'll bet shortly before that date we'll have some kind of big announcement from Ray. Longtime cognoscenti know that he intended to coincide the announcement of his conversion to Orthodoxy with the paperback release of his penultimate book, but a foxy reader forced him to spill the beans a bit prematurely.
DeleteSomehow, though, I doubt Mr. Carpenter will want to do the investigative research necessary to pre-empt the next proclamation in Ray's Journey of Self-Discovery.
-The Man From K Street
Oh my gosh. Yes. Remember when Dreher dissed Jonathan as a "Catholic Prufock" after the latter outed him? Apparently it's a mortal sin to call out a liar for lying. Doesn't Jonathan realize that a Great Man like Dreher is above the petty moral constraints (e.g., Don't Lie) that bind lesser mortals?
DeleteJ-Carp can correct me if I'm wrong, but the funniest thing about the incident is that J-Carp just called up the parish where Dreher talked about visiting and asked the priest who answered if Dreher was a member and the priest said "Oh, yeah!", really proud to have such a noteworthy convert. It was merely one self-inflicted embarrassing moment in a long line of them.
DeleteMy guess is that the priest probably figured Dreher would be happy for everyone to know of his new religion. But he had the Catholic mask ripped off before he was done using it.
But he had the Catholic mask ripped off before he was done using it.
DeleteA-yup. ;)
I just couldn't not post this, although it makes me gag. Let the record show that the only halfway-decent musician in this crew, R George, still supports traditional marriage.
Deletehttp://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2008/06/25/how-we-spend-our-evenings/
I know I do not speak for all Orthodox Christians but what makes you think that we want Rod? We have been hoping he would waltz or flit over to his new faith soon. We do not want him...I bet its even worse now that he has built his own Church..Just wait until someone disagrees with him..He will shut that private Church down in a minute...Just wait..
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, I totally hear ya. LOL.
DeleteDiane
Believe me when I say that I do not follow everything that RD does, so my knowledge may be sketchy on some matters. But from what I gather, RD has a track record now of having been especially meddlesome in some kind of controversy within the OCA, and the heat generated from that mess somehow or another shifted him over to the ROCOR.
DeleteWhile I am not that interested in a blow by blow account, complete with all the gruesome details, about that specific matter, there is one thing I do wonder about. Wouldn't it have been prudent in receiving someone like RD into the Orthodox church to take an especially cautious approach for this novice convert in regards to his spiritual welfare, especially when he seems so prone to launch himself into outer space? As an example of this, I only need to cite some of the very goofy stuff RD was writing in regards to modernist poet Wallace Stevens.
I think that Judge373 pointed out some good advice: "…it's convert 101 …that you don't discuss or broadcast spiritual experiences you have with anyone but your parish priest or spiritual father."
Maybe I am not sure how to frame my question. It just seems very strange to me that any Orthodox ministry would ever want to employ RD as any kind of spokesman, lecturer, "ally", or whatever, even if he were somehow a "big name conservative" celebrity of sorts.
If this were the case, it just seems odd to me, and I am puzzled about it. To me it is clear that the man has plenty of ongoing psychological issues and hang-ups. His blogging testifies to that.
Pardon me if my question seems unclear or ignorant. It's just that in the past I have seen, up front, how some young xtians can go totally unhinged and eventually self-destruct when they get too much fame and renown bestowed on them by the Church much too soon in their lives. And I wonder if RD is likewise going unhinged. I admit that I thought RD's book was passable (up till the last three chapters, which in my book review I called the "Book of Rod"), but on the other hand when I look at RD's blogging, it's very hard for me to imagine how any perceptive minister (or "spiritual father") could not see that the poor man is really a spiritual wreck and especially needs help and admonition — even some occasional "tough love" that doesn't hesitate to point out where things are going astray.
Orthodoxy in America is a freakishly small pool with freakishly weird fish. Any convert that has done anything (even if it is being a pseudo-"journalist" on the interwebs) is paraded around like a trophy deer head.
DeleteBeing Orthodox in America does involve a certain extreme form of asceticism.... but it isn't fasting, vigils, or prostrations. It involves learning to deal with toolish members. I have no plans to leave the Orthodox Church, but I've often wished I was Roman Catholic so I could at least go to church, say my prayers, and then have normal conversations about normal things (like sports) with normal people during coffee hour. Oh, and it would also be handy when people ask me what kind of church I go to. I could just say "Catholic" - one word and the person already knows what you are talking about!
Instead, I have to say, "Orthodox" and then explain to people how it is "...pretty much like 'Catholic' just from Eastern Europe instead of Western Europe."
And the "dealing with d-bags" phenomenon feeds itself. The first generation of d-bags gets all their male members ordained (after being in the Church for three or four years, mind you), then they become parish priests and encourage the conversion of even more d-bags... it is like a virus. It sucks that every time you meet a new inquirer or catechumen at coffee hour they all have a masters degree in early christian studies and work for some culture warrior institute to stop the gay armada and homeschool their kids (nothing wrong with homeschooling, but it can sometimes attract a certain kind of weird; everyone here knows what I'm talking about) and have super weird, awkward interactions with their spouse, etc. You never just meet a normal guy who is a plumber or a teacher or a podiatrist who talks about normal stuff and has normal hobbies. It is like being at a dive bar where the bouncer keeps turning away the hot girls at the door and instead keeps letting in rodeo clowns and hobos and people dressed as anime characters. Eventually, some people just say, "WTF...this bar sucks," and they leave.
I'm sticking it out, but I can't say I really blame them.
-Julio
LOL
DeleteJulio, I think I used to hang out with you down by the schoolyard.
DeleteWell, man, I come from a very small protestant church and I am very happy to be a Catholic. You're right; it's just plain easier to live life and relate to other people in all levels as a Catholic.
So if you ever decide to give up the sticking it out, you are welcome in the Catholic church. And if anyone tells you different, leave 'em to me. I'll smack 'em.
What Pauli said.
DeleteDiane
I grew up with Greek people in a very catholic area. orthodoxy was presented as an ethnic twist on catholcism and I never heard word one about schisms. they also had way better dancing at their parish fair than the catholic parish fairs did (when Greeks get excited while dancing they bend down and slap the floor). Clearly it's the converts who get off on schism
DeleteNot just converts. There are West-hating ethnics. For some it is a retreat to nationalism, a veil for anti-intellectualism, etc. I certainly think there are differences. And not every convinced Orthodox convert sucks (you certainly can't call Gabriel Bunge, Placide Deseille, or Marcus Plested anti-intellectuals). Just most of them suck.
Deletejust generalizing and providing anecdotes, so take it for what it's worth. I've never heard of those people.
DeleteROCOR is trying to become the big player in American Orthodoxy. They thought Roddie would be a prize..He isn't and they now know it...That little Dixie Fry Church will not grow because Roddie will need to be in control and Just wait ...just wait until the priest who may be another goofy convert disagrees with him..I think we are watching Roddie self destruct in slo mo...If he wasn't no irritating I could feel sorry for him.
DeleteThat's how I feel, too. I really do feel sorry for him, and I pray for him. But then he takes another poisonous little potshot at my Church, and, once again, I feel like throttling him.
DeleteKeith: "if you ever actually give what he writes on the subject a studied reading the most you ever find is a pre-pubescent Paul Revere confined to a one room apartment with a broom between his legs…"
ReplyDeleteKeith, like you, I have never been able to find anything of substance either in all the "Cawfee Tawk" on the subject. RD doesn't seem to say anything other than "We're losing the culture war, therefore…" Therefore what, exactly? He just never really explains. Benedict Option? Let's all meet underground in the Catacombs? Well, Rod, tell us the plan, we're dying to know. And how is that Benedict Option working out for you? And when Michael challenged him to get serious, again there was nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. RD just never really says.
There is no there there.
Keith: "Anything more would cost him blog hits and key connections with liberal and homosexual bloggers higher on the career ladder."
I thought Mark Levin was harsh when he dismissed RD as a thin-skinned "kook with a god complex". I thought maybe I going overboard suggesting that RD might need serious psychological counseling regarding his continuing hang-ups about his sister.
But if I read you correctly, basically you're saying that RD is an unprincipled, brown-nosing coward. Now that is harsh. Harsh, but possibly true.
"But if I read you correctly, basically you're saying that RD is an unprincipled, brown-nosing coward. Now that is harsh. Harsh, but possibly true."
ReplyDeleteI'm open to all explanations as to why there's no there there. Maybe I just missed it.
Or maybe Rod's just a poseur who's been batting way out of his intellectual league his whole life. According to him, right now, he's just reading the Odyssey and Dante's Inferno. Hell, I read those in college as a freshman. Well, skimmed them. But didn't everybody?
So, while glib and facile as a writer, maybe he's really so thick-headed that he just doesn't see how hollow his stuff is, all form and no content. Maybe his whole life experience is some sort of interminably peripatetic ADHD TL;DR flibbertigibbetude, where the highest mountain ranges of his intellectual landscape are random sociologists and blog posts, and where one sentence just flows into another after another on down to the sea.
Malice, or incompetence. Yes.
Keith
Here's a pretty simple litmus test: what sort of human being writes the book Dreher wrote about his dead sister? Not the sort of book, the book Dreher actually wrote and won't stop adding chapters to?
DeleteNo doubt tens of thousands or writers suffer losses of loved ones and want to memorialize them using the skills at their disposal. But just as soon as the impulse strikes, we know that some sort of prudential self-editing process kicks in, telling them "Jeez, just listen to yourself. You can't say that, or that or that." We know this because the peculiar Drehery endless book campaign (campaign in the sense of WWI, or Obama) is a distinctive aberration, not the norm flooding the genre.
What sort of mind noticeably lacks that internal circuit breaker?
Malice, or incompetence? Yes.
Keith
Keith,
DeleteThe answer's pretty easy -- Dreher is an Aspie.
I know plenty of aspies who aren't sociopaths
DeleteHey, off-topic, but I have a good one. What is Cookie Monster's philosophy? Nom-nom-nominalism! Pretty good, huh.
ReplyDeleteWell, I like it, but I'm easy to please. :)
Delete"C is for conceptualism. That's good enough for me."
DeleteROCOR is the clown car of American Orthodoxy..Once you get out of the big cities with the old White Russian refugees like my great-grandmother you get these creepy convert parishes where everyone thinks that they need to look like a Russian peasant..They hate life...they are scared to death of gay people...which is why Roddie is trying so hard to look like Sonic the Hedge Hog but they usually implode after a while..it takes a lot of energy to be so sure of everything.
ReplyDeleteSonic the Hedgehog? Bwahahaha!
Delete